An Interview with a Bible Student

This is another link to a Female Bible student that left.


This is the full channel that gives a full overview of Jehovah's Witnesses and its comparison to the Bible Students.

Many witnesses and those that have left the Witness organization have asked about the Bible Student movement. This Interview is very accurate from my experience and a former elder who went into the Bible Student movement also.

Notice our emphasize is only on Russell and the teaching, the culture of the Bible Students vs the Jehovah witnesses to let you see the religion and not go in blind.

It is not against individuals in either sect but the culture they share that makes them essentially the same religion expressed and packaged differently.


24 Responses to An Interview with a Bible Student

  1. Dana says:

    Hi Ann,

    I don’t know if you remember me, but I grew up in the LA class (I’m a bit older than you and your brother). I left years ago, much to the dismay and consternation of my stepmom and her family. Quite frankly, I couldn’t stomach the hypocrisy anymore. And that\’s just the tip of the iceberg. I’m not sure if you’ll ever see this comment, but I just wanted to let you know that I read your article and the comments here. Your cousin Cher-el is on my friends’ list on Facebook and I’ll be honest, I completely forgot the connection. LOL Anyway… take care and I hope all is well with you. 🙂

    • jacqueline says:

      Hi Dana, this is Jacqueline, I can tell Ann you commented to her. And thank you so much for commenting here. Cher-el is just one of the best people I have met. I had to clear my Facebook friends to stop the many beautiful BS friends from trying to witness. (smile) I loved Cher-el’s mom! Her sister is so nice also and her husband. There were some dear beautiful friends for the nine years I was associated with the Bible students but they were so much like the Jwitnesses that I left.

      At least I got to see where the witnesses got their organization set up and all the doctrines. It was a journey I had to take. I attended both the Chicago and Northwest In, class (some really beautiful brothers in the Northwest In, class also).

      I attended many many conventions but the control on doctrinal beliefs is the same as the witnesses. The witnesses just flat out tell you. The Bible students are more subtle and piety that didn’t match their manipulation.
      But that is all behind me now and our little group has the freedom to listen to other Christ-like voices that we had been told were worldly. I find so many trying to worship and pleas God and they love and accept Jesus, something I never saw practiced in the witnesses nor the Bible students.

      The witnesses follow their voice as savior only the governing body, organization, and the Bible students actually as I experienced worshiped Charles Taze Russell, It was unreal this devotion.

      I had never seen anything like it, the tearful adoration of a deceased man. It got weird.

      • Dana says:

        Hi Jacqueline!

        Thank you for your response. I never officially “left” the Bible Students church – I just stopped going. I would consider myself agnostic more than anything else and my stepmom and her family would be appalled to hear me say it. But, all the signs are there: I got married in a courtyard at a restaurant with a dear gay friend as our officiant. The only “prayer” uttered during the ceremony was an Irish blessing my new sister-in-law read. Nothing about our ceremony was religious in any way.

        I think my mom and her cousin conveniently forgot about all of that, especially now that I have a daughter of my own. My husband and I are both raising her to understand religion and make decisions for herself, but with the obvious caveat that she is not to join a cult. 😉

        Two years ago, I started a graduate program and thought my mom would be excited and proud of me. Instead, she has become increasingly distant. I attributed it to the fact that we do not have the same political views and it right contentious on Facebook (to the point that she removed me from her friends list!). She didn’t like that I told her her data was wrong and that she needed to check her sources before posting misinformation. She claimed she removed me from her Facebook because she didn’t approve of me posting pictures of my daughter – something about the Internet predators are out there. I could see right through that ruse. I was sexually abused at 11 years old and NOTHING was done about it, even though the man who abused me was taken in for questioning. It was big mess that I won’t give you the details on (unless you want me to… I don’t mind), but basically, I was left with mental scars that will never go away. I wasn’t abused by a Bible Student, but did the Bible Students do anything to support me? NOPE. In fact, when I was 13 years old, I caught the attention of a 23 year old member of the church and for the next five years, he would not leave me alone. What did I know about love as a 13 year old? He would sneak letters into my bible, telling me he loved me and that he would wait until I was 18 and we would get married. After suffering from sexual abuse, the attention from a trusted member of the class was welcomed. But, as a mother now, I see how concerning it is. My mom did have to call his mother to tell him to back off, several times. When I was 19 years old, he fell off the face of the earth because I guess I wasn’t pious enough for him and he started “courting” another young woman. She was eight years younger than him. They got married and I guess he got what he wanted – a young woman who would basically do what she was told.

        Fast forward to now, and my mom hardly speaks to me. Her cousin outright asked me if we were taking our daughter to church. I told her no. She knew the answer, so I don’t know why she asked. And then she played the “YOUR DAUGHTER DOES NOT KNOW CHRIST?!” card. I am respectful of people and their right to worship whatever they want (except cults… LOL). But, don’t come at me and try to convert me or guilt me into your religion. That’s not cool. I told her I didn’t want to talk about it and you would have thought that how she reacted on the phone, I told her to shut up. She tried to bring it up again, and I told her again, I don’t want to talk about it. Enough is enough.

        And then my mom’s cousin sends a card to my daughter with a passive aggressive message inside, suggesting she go to church with my mom sometime. Why can’t the Bible Students just accept people for who they are and celebrate what they want to be? I grew up never directly hearing how proud my mom was of me. It’s like she can’t utter those words physically. I really don’t understand it. I grew up in a cold, sad, lifeless house with very little emotional support. I am making sure I’m not doing the same with my daughter. I will never allow her to be exposed to the kind of mental abuse the Bible Students meted out. I was called worldly a lot. A LOT.

        Anyway… thanks for responding! I hope I didn’t come across too strongly here. Please send my love to Ann. I hope she’s doing well!

        • jacqueline says:

          Dana, don’t ever feel you are wrong for sharing your experience. Silence is an abuser’s best friend, we have been spiritually abused! To see it in black and white can be sobering.
          I have not read your full reply but I will do so in the morning. I have just alerted Ann to tell her you have commented and sent her the exact link so she can reply. See Ann’s experience really helped me to see I had jumped from the frying pan into the pot. But I really don’t regret it as I grew and learned to go directly to our Father, Almighty God Yahweh, and Jesus. To accept the Holy Spirit as our teacher and helper and not venerate these men that have milked and kept alive this Spiritual abuse from the 18th century.
          We were born-in and had no choice. It is very difficult to escape mentally if you are born into a cult or high control religion.
          It is just such a blessing that those so-called “Worldly People” are so kind among the Christian community and help us born into a cult adjust.
          Our little group is like the “Huddle” in a football game. You support each other and stick to the Truth.
          What is Truth? The Word of God is Truth not a bunch of manmade books or the so-called “7th messenger” or governing body. I want to let Ann comment before I go further

          Dana, you are always welcome here to say what you want and the articles on here are just that our thoughts as we learn and listen to others. We are growing in love for Christ, so our little articles might reflect

  2. jacqueline says:

    This is a follow-up to this interview on his page giving much-needed info on the history of the watchtower and his experience.

  3. Jacqueline says:

    Father Divine (1876-1965) He was also called “The Messenger” around 1907.

    It seems this was the era of the cult of personalities and they claimed lots of these men as the 7th Messenger or angel of Revelation.
    New York and Pennsylvania seem to be a magnet for theses types of religions and their headquarters.
    There seemed to be this marrying and making the wife accept a celibate situation, living in compounds etc. These religions were so alike during that era. They had a fascination with their leaders being special.

    I remember hearing a lot about him as a teenager now I know why. Stories are different but times were ripe for creature worship of one man, claiming to be god or the mouthpiece for god.

  4. Jacqueline says:

    Ann, yesterday I knew I would be busy and drained at the end of day so I answered you quickly. However you can’t just casually say, ” my husband has been accused of 16 million dollars potential fraud by the FCC.

    I think I would have visited my father also. But don’t doubt your choice in a mate along the lines of giving up your former religion. The two are like different, apples and oranges to me. You did as good as it gets with us humans in high places of authority, money ruins things when it gets in the mix. And you are strong enough for your children and your husband. It is not divine punishment for leaving, it’s something your life experience has equipped you to handle.
    This is however mentally a problem if in the news.
    I have to stay out of the news because of the effect it might have on my children. A judge once sealed a case for me, so I will pray you picky the right words at the right time for your children and your husband.
    Next week I move into a new office in our mental health sector and this I know is a blessing from Jehovah and Jesus.
    Btw, I have a very good friend in LA from when I traveled with tours, maybe you know this person. I would have to private message the name. Lol
    I travel tomorrow so today I wrap things up and head back home.
    Take care of yourself!

  5. Ann says:

    Hi Jacqueline, and Lee!

    Lee, in response to what you wrote earlier, I do not know that your family would have much trouble in Los Angeles. Or even SoCal for that matter. Most of the elders at my church are either non-white, or in a multi-ethnic marriage with copious children (this would not have been true twenty years ago). Fundamentalists are interested in one thing–making more fundamentalists. And they adopt en masse across all racial lines. But this is LA, which tends to be trend-setting. Even amongst the Bible Students, some of the elders have multi-ethnic grandchildren or godchildren.

    Carnegie and my dad go head-to-head every Sunday, as my dad is infinitely more Divine Plan and Bob doesn’t give any credence to Russell’s views where they lean into Adventism. I was there this past Sunday and asked Bob how he managed to stay in the Bible Students, being that his theology is far more liberal and he said that these are God’s people and it was important to maintain church unity. Which is nice because the ecclesia is SO small now. There used to be 150 people there every Sunday and now? At most 20, and their youngest consecrated member has just decided to stop coming. My eldest son’s heart is breaking over it because in some ways this kid was a role model for him.

    Meanwhile BACK IN FUNDIEVILLE, the son of the senior pastor of the church I left the Russellites for was charged by the SEC on, I think, something like 16 million dollars of attempted fraud, so again I’m feeling REALLY CONFIDENT about my life’s choices. My children who, unfortunately, can read and are constantly rummaging through my texts, are also moderately concerned about the situation as it sparks questions in that the senior pastor himself is being investigated for nepotism. This is going to be good, I can feel it.

    I didn’t make it past the first Oxygen episode because it is extremely depressing. I know you warned me about this. And because I already feel bad for every family that will be questioning their faith after seeing this, and the spiraling that follows. And even more depressing is that nearly every denomination has a similar story and coverups. This is all so bleak. The Oxygen special really captures the bleak.

    It may get to the point where most people who are still interested in the faith after all this will be in phone fellowships, Internet meetings, or home church/rented environments like the Bible Students, as so many people are scared of institutionalized Christianity now. It attracts too many power hungry types, and far too many predators.


    • jacqueline says:

      Ann, your life is about to become fun. You however will not be the wife to bring into the matter. 16 million, now that is a figure that makes you wonder if you believe the Bible why not spread it around to your friends, relatives or parishioners. Money us to be used, not hoarded. The world stage demands it. But talk to your children, this will hurt. I understand a young one leaving institutional religions. He is smart enough to know you have to move away from Russell’s books and progress in the Bible which is getting easier to understand. Or leave just to be more normal. All our Bible knowledge however let’s us know this is going to go God’s way and you can go to him without a huge congregation.
      I didn’t look at any of Oxygen. I have been talking to Trey Bundy over the years and knew it was coming. There are women pedophiles and adult male on male child pedophile in the cong. I was in 20years ago. It was known by elders and the male was open. I like small groups and am learning the real contents of just the Bible this way, no books or magazines. House Churches and call ins are more effective to me in our society today. They want money to run these huge organizations. I hope more can see they can walk away from any religion and just go to God. I wish they would stop writing letters saying they are gone and just go. To much authority over them is given when you do that. I guess you can tell I don’t like hierarchy or following one man religions. Lol
      So nice to see you can visit and talk. A lot if witnesses get DF so can’t talk to their friends and relatives if they visit. Ann you are more like Cher-el, pleasant, witty and nice. I do miss her. But so goes life. Got a horrible day ahead of me but got to deal with it. Out of commission the rest of the day.
      I wondered about Bob Carnegie also. Me,I couldn’t stand all that dissension over not wanting to look only in the Bible and following what one man thought 100 years ago before technology. His thoughts are based on the concept of 1914 being the end of the world. It was wasting my time to hear the same arguments for and against what Russell Said. But to each his own at least you can leave the Bible Students without trying to destroy family relations. I am just so happy and feeling free now. Also in small groups you probably would have had to just settle, because there aren’t any men available. I asked about this once and the elder said well the sisters have that cross to bear. I said no, they can go find another Christian like you men would do. So you did what you had to do and don’t worry about his troubles. This too shall pass.
      Take ❤ care.

    • Lee Anthony says:

      I always wondered how it was with Carnegie and the others in the L.A. Class. I would love to have Him on my podcast for an interview, I think our audience could gain alot from the experiences he has had through the years in the Bible student class as well as his bible based view point which I personally very much enjoy, I listen to his talks often and I like that he uses scripture and tries not to go beyond what is written.

  6. Ann says:

    Oh, and yes. I am 100% serious. But there are also many good things as well.

  7. Ann says:

    Hi Jacqueline,
    I’m really looking forward to the Oxygen special! Everyone needs to see these things. By the way, all over Twitter, I’ve seen the JW organization described as a “pedophile playground.” I wonder if they are using your term! At my church, after the recent events, the nickname we have for “Children’s Ministry” is “pedophile playground,” so we are co-opting your terminology.

    You know. Now that you mention it. It’s really hard for me to get a ticket. Two years ago my daughter was in the car when I was racing to a dance rehearsal. I ran a stop sign and when the police pulled me over, I actually said to the officer, “I’m so sorry! We are so late! Can you write me a ticket! Write me TWO, because I’m likely to run more stop signs!”

    And I was dead serious.

    The officer laughed, and my daughter watched in awe as he let me off with a warning.
    So you might be onto something!

    Okay, must run atm. I will be on here frequently, hunting through your articles because I’m very interested in the Judeo-Christian interpretations of scripture! Keep posting! And thank you for loving my family and for all your kind words!


    • jacqueline says:

      Ann, traffic stops are different for sure. He would have taken me out of the car if I had said that and a couple of tickets for sure! LOL I couldn’t look at the Oxygen show because I have handled cases and have seen the awful way the victims have been treated. A Psychologist today said the governing body and elders response to the cries of their congregant borders on satanic evil. I agree, because I just can’t look at it.
      And to think the witnesses that are still supporting this body of men think God approves only of this body and that they are the only people on earth that God is talking to.
      They believe this organization is what God is using, right or wrong. Even the governing body says “even if you can prove us wrong with scripture, you have to teach it until the body changes it.”

      So many professional people in my community saw this and I was in professional meetings for 2 days now. I just say all of you Know about my trial in our court here and I left that religion. So I was able to be looked on with respect instead of disdain because I sounded the alarm as far back as the 1980s. It is so sad that the parents of these victims would let their children suffer rather than call the police on those people. There are also female pedophiles in the religion according to som now 50-year-old young men.

      Ann on here we post a lot from other good voices of men and women that also have God’s Spirit. This allows others from high control religions with a hierarchy to see and reason to accept or not. At least it starts their brains to turning, It encourages them to do “Critical Thinking” and not accept these men’s words. They have a brain also to read the Bible and be confident that they are getting the sense of it without picking up a bunch of books.
      I enjoy talking to you Ann, you are not odd. You are not always talking about “making your calling and election sure”. That phrase was used so much among the BS that it made me shiver. But if that is what they believe, that’s okay. God got this.
      At least you can walk away and still have your family to talk too as is shown by you being able to talk to your family. How beautiful!
      So the BS gets a good mark for that, their cousins are crazy. Ha.
      Well, Good Night I got just 2 more days of meetings and I can sleep until 12 noon.

  8. Lee Anthony says:

    Ann and Jacqueline,
    I have enjoyed this conversation immensely. I wonder how my family would be viewed at these church’s spoken of here, quite a team are we, black and white with kids mixed and with a wife that takes nothing from no one and will let you know who your talking to wether your an elder, her boss, or the president don’t matter to her, and me , I encourage it since she respects me I am happy to have her stand for what’s right, Im a husband who loves standing on the bible as a form of warfare or in peace too. I take the whole book and attempt to take nothing from nor add anything too it. I would be called hebrew roots if there was a title for me however I share Jacquelines view of Yeshua being the only begotten son. I think the fundys would just hate to listen to me rant on the podcast. I do hope you continue to share here we all are different but love each other because of it, its easy to get along I think when we all let God decide the hellfire issue for himself and we just focus on following his Son. Carnegie is a very good bible student speaker by the way, only one I listen too. Lord bless us all in this crazy world!
    Lee Anthony

  9. Ann says:

    Hi Jacqueline!
    Your Christology sounds the same as mine, and actually, the same as most Bible Students in my generation who see Christ as Logos and not an angelic being, so I think I may have solved the mystery here: as to why you and Peter (the man in the YouTube channel above) endured the organizational aspects of Bible Students more than I ever did.

    You and Peter, I think, were in more Divine Plan ecclesias. The Los Angeles ecclesia, in which I grew up, was not Divine Plan. Meaning: Russell\’s works were not assumed to be divinely inspired. This is why, over a decade ago, the LA class dissolved its Sunday volume studies and created a Bible-only study. One of the major elders in this ecclesia is a Hollywood mogul who prefers a contextual Bible-only approach, and many do not subscribe to theories like the archangel Michael, or even the idea that the 7 churches in Revelation represent time periods. I was in the Chicago class for a few years, and didn\’t understand why the brethren didn\’t fight more in studies.

    I have to run, but want to quickly explain what I meant by JWs and BS being ahead in their theology. But first, an important clarification:

    I still don\’t quite know what is meant by nominal Christianity in a modern context. Churches like Joel Osteen or these televangelists, or maybe the large Pentecostal organizations seen in documentaries like \”Jesus Camp\” could qualify. But within Christendom, there is a concept called \”BIBLE-BELIEVING CHURCHES.\” This is code for fundamentalism–churches that believe in a literal interpretation of Scripture. So here are some key differences in the theological approach of fundamentalist Christians, and the JW/BS groups that I\’ve noted:

    1.) The entry doctrine of fundamentalism is that God created the earth in six LITERAL 24 hour days. This is not to be questioned. Forget fossils and tree rings. Forget you ever took a science class. Do not EVER question this doctrine, as to do so means you do not believe the Bible. For this reason, fundamentalist Christians almost universally homeschool. I do teach old earth in my home. It is not a well-protected secret, but I\’ve been given a pass because my husband teaches Six-day, and everyone at my church knows that I have been irrevocably tainted by Russelitism and might not be saved.
    2.) Protestant Christians are unaware of most theological controversies. These are all handled by their seminary trained leaders, our priestly class. Individual parishioners do not engage in apologetics.
    3.) Bible Students show up to conventions with diaglotts, concordances, commentaries, etc. Little doctrinal warriors. The JWs I have met are the BIGGEST pains, as they are well-equipped to trounce Trinitarians. I don\’t know what they did to you guys, but the JWs are leaders in this area (far more than the BS)–it is a massacre every time. I remember watching the James White vs. Stafford debate with my fundamentalist friends (Stafford pretty clearly wins this debate) and how silent it was after the video was over.
    4.) What you say regarding the JWs and women is interesting. It sounds similar to fundamentalism. First of all, women do not work outside the home in fundamentalism. This is also a natalist religion, in which women are saved through childbirth. In the BS and JWs, some choose not to have families. That would not be permitted here. In fact, it would be seen as Satanic. Most women do not practice birth control, or if they do, it is done secretly. Average family size is 4+. Females are homeschooled to ensure their purity and viability as future mothers. You do not argue or contradict your husband (we totally do, but only behind closed doors, and we only tell our closest friends, who might sell you out at any time, so try not to have friends). To do so may result in the formal discipline of cantankerous women. I don\’t have a joint checking account or access to my husband\’s money. My purview is the home. Standard fundie rules.
    5.) Hell is eternal and torturous. There is no other interpretation to be entertained here. Now, on the surface, most fundamentalist Christians seem like my aunt. Sweet, gentle, and tolerant of people\’s mistakes. Well, this is true for the first five minutes. But because hell is real and horrific to these people, contrary opinions lead to such. The flock must be protected.
    6.) This one might be more familiar to a JW than a BS, in fundamentalism, YOUR ELDERS ARE CHOSEN BY GOD. To contradict an elder is to go against your shepherd who has been elected by God himself to this position, to be the authority, and to protect you from grievous wolves. My church formally disciplines members at least once a month, sometimes more if necessary. Keeps us respectful.
    7.) You are saved, or not saved. You\’re either going to heaven, or most assuredly hell. But if you are saved, its \”Once Saved Always Saved\” and you are predestined into salvation. You\’d think this would be easy, and that Christians who feel saved would be sinning all over the place, enjoying their security of salvation, but it\’s actually just the opposite. There is an extreme paranoia to bear fruit, because if you don\’t, no one will think you are saved, and you\’ll have the social status of a click beetle.
    8.) Your most important product as a fundamentalist parent is your children. This is the opposite of the BS. If you are fundamentalist, and all of your children are not saved and walking with the Lord. You have failed. Cry in a corner. Leave the church. Spare yourself the humiliation. May the Lord have mercy on your soul. Your children are going to burn for eternity.
    9.) Fundamentalism doesn\’t turn the other cheek. They crush their enemies like in Scientology.

    And that\’s it, really.

    Do you mean my cousin Joanna or Cher-el?!! I would LOVE to be compared to either of them, but honestly, those girls are angels. They are workhorses for the kingdom. I really am like the worst member of my family. I don\’t say that in false humility, its just a fact.

    P.S. If God is blessing the Aryan race, someone should tell them. Currently, close to 70% of American suicides, are conducted by white males.

    • jacqueline says:

      ANN, ANN you are not any type of worse member of your family, you are just for real! But I love your wit and explanations are just so complete. The love bombing ran out for me.
      Cher-el is my girl! Joanna is very sweet and takes after their mother but I know and identify with Cher-el. She had us in stitches on a Facebook thread one day. (the conversation where I got castigated for letting my niece call Peter’s relative a racist. Like I could stop my niece who lived in Timbuktu and calls things as she sees it.)
      You are going to love Cher-el’s story: We all somehow got on police stopping a black person in contrast to a White person. Some Bible students didn’t feel there would be a difference.
      But Cher-el told her story of SPEEDING, ok, but when stopped she didn’t have her driver’s license, ok, on top of that she had forgotten to renew her license plate!! I said Jail for me and tow the car!
      Cher-el said he let her go with a warning to get those things taken care of. My family laughed until we cried! By this time people were following Cher-el and me as we told our real situations and Cher-el’s experience was the exact opposite of mine. We were all just having a fun-filled conversation that night on Facebook. It was just fun and everybody on my side thought it was funny and just loved my friend Cher-el. But it all went south when some in the Chicago class got serious with their objections to there being a difference in outcomes. I tried to diffuse the situation but my niece is not a JW or anything, she has command of the human language and is a writer. So she gently said one sentence. “Aunt Jackie you are wasting your breath, that lady is a racist.”
      So I immediately shut down the conversation and erased it so no more BS could keep coming on to see it or comment. It got hot that night.
      I hated to erase Cher-el and my conversation because they were hilarious!
      The next fourth Sunday I was almost preached into second death for not reprimanding my niece and pulling down the entire conversation where I told a few BS elders to mind their own business and not to ever come on and tell me what I better do! Their phraseology was not well thought through. So that is the loving Chel-el I know and love.
      I wanted to go to the funeral but it would have been like giving the elders another bullet because they missed me with the first one. And that occasion just should have been the focus not me.
      So, that being said are you serious about your religion? It sounds a little like witnesses in some respects but I have never been afraid to let an elder or Circuit/District overseer how I felt. (these are men higher than elders) I was threatened with disfellowshipping by a District overseer if I consented to be a witness for the prosecution in a child molestation case against the witness organization. He was shocked when I responded “don’t you ever call into my home and threaten me ever again! That was a no, no for sure within the witnesses. But I learned early to keep your sanity in a high control religion you have to be no-nonsense with those in authority and they will stay out of your way.
      I have had a very rich life experience, it has made me the Bible only warrior that I am now.
      Oh, BTW, you mention the difference in your class and the Grand plan Bible students. Well, no one told me, and I was sending people from my work on the friendsofjehovahwitnesses website to get baptized at a Dawn Convention!! I never knew the difference. I joined the PBS board because Joanna reads for them and the elder in Chicago was indignant at me. I couldn’t figure out all this animosity against me joining the Christian question Radio Broadcast so I didn’t.
      A brother in Br. Carnegie’s class explained to me that he knew I didn’t know from how I just was mixing everybody up in a bowl and stirring them together. It is the Hollywood brother you spoke of. When I had had it with the Grand plan brothers I wrote in on their website to see if they would let our little class join theirs online because they seemed not so crazy.
      Well, he said no way was he answering in writing, he had to hear my voice when he told me they detected I wasn’t aware there were different factions of Bible Students. I was driving an RV and he wanted me to make sure I parked safely so he could “school me”. There was laughter and tears as we sorted it out. He kindly answered all my questions, a gentle giant indeed.
      I guess it is true that God protects fools and children .ha, ha.
      But like you, I am going to die in my Bible only relationship with Christ and Jehovah. I have learned to live with the family members that shun me, even very close to my heart ones.
      I do feel sorry for the way the beliefs of the BS and JW affected the family life of so many. I noticed a lot of BS didn’t have children nor married because as I said before, the religion only was built to last for a certain amount of time, not 100 years, so they kept their lives unencumbered.
      JW once said there were no children in the ark so they said don’t have children for the 1975 failed prediction. I had babies in 1970, 73′,74′ and 1975. So you see I must didn’t believe them.
      So won’t it be beautiful when we find out we all got most of it wrong and God says okay everybody, listen up! Jesus is going to clean this all up for you for 1,000 years. We listen and get our names in the Book of Life and live on a New Earth from the ages to the ages. And I do personally believe satan is being tormented in the lake of fire. Out of existence isn’t justice for him.
      And then we will all have a really good laugh!
      My I wish you could come on our Saturday night call-in one time. This Saturday we will look at the OXYGEN exposure of the horrible pedophile paradise of the JW.
      Take Care Ann and now I got a new friend, you are definitely Cher-el’s relative. Cheers.

  10. Ann says:

    Hi Jacqueline,
    I will come on later and respond to everything else, but I wanted to be clear I meant Arian as in the Non-Trinitarian doctrine of Arius:D. I realize that can make all the difference!


    • jacqueline says:

      Ann, I thought that is what you meant. I just might be Arian. Bible Students and I disagreed o the nature of Christ. They say he is a created being and the Witnesses but I don’ see it that way.
      Humans beget humans and dogs, dos, fish little fish and on and on from the birth of an offspring.
      Jehovah God begets a God, like all producing after their kind. We are in their image so we should understand that a GOD will birth, beget, a baby God. He births, BEGETS a God. He said Jesus was his only son that was birthed or begotten.
      I read the Bible without allegorizing now. I know what beget is as it is mentioned in the Bible so many times and we have animals that birth within themselves, only one. But I do believe what God says that they together created all other things.
      The word ELOHIM is plural, I see it as Him having all within him the power to birth like a female and a male. ( His nature is different but in human language, I speak.)
      I believe Jesus and Jehovah are of the same material for lack of a better word.But separate and distinct and I see His Spirit in vision in Revelation standing 7 in front of Him so it is distinct.
      I don’t believe Jesus is Michael. That doctrine bothers on heresy to me. Michael is a mighty Angel for sure but he needs help sometimes to fight. JESUS WILL OPEN HIS MOUTH AND THE WHOLE UNIVERSE WILL ROCK! He is not a mere created angel. I disagreed with the Witnesses on this from at least 10 years old when I was reprimanded by a Circuit Overseer for saying things like that.
      The Bible Students dumb Jesus down just like the Witnesses. Both have to insert Russell or a Governingbody on a high spot so to me they dishonor Jesus.
      Ann to me Jesus is not a mere angel but the WORD of God when he speaks God told him or He knows what his father wants. They are that intertwined. Some husbands and wives, even twins have that closeness but not the same but they sometimes move almost as one. So why people follow (Jerome) I think on this trinity thing. I don’t argue the trinity with people nor the deity of Christ with Bible Students or Witnesses. I believe Jesus is a God but not his Father Jehovah.

      Ann, although I haven’t met you, but you remind me of your cousin that is in the Chicago class. I just love her so much. I loved Sis Marge, so kinder soul have I ever met.
      She didn’t turn against me when a Chicago Bible Student Elder gave a damming talk against me with the approval of the Chicago Bible Students body of elders on a fouth Sunday with many visitors present. I just wrote him off as what I had come to see that class as.
      Take Care ANN


  11. Ann says:

    Hi Jacqueline!
    I think my comments might be longer than my article…

    And as to that, if the article is proving helpful, then absolutely keep it on your site! I hope it can be edifying. I hadn\’t really thought about it much until you commented on Proclamation, but I think, honestly, I wouldn\’t have written that article now, in 2020. It was written in 2017, and I was still riding high. The Bible Students were dying out as planned, and despite the scandals in the SBC and Sovereign Grace Ministries, MY particular fold was doing terrific. I would visit my dad often, gloating that the TRUE church was going strong, and he might want to think about converting to my side before it\’s too late.

    I was wrong. Six months after writing the article, my church system fell under heavy scrutiny for some pretty powerful sins within the leadership, and from that point on, the story only got worse. If you\’re seeing ads for the JW special on Oxygen featuring the pedophilia scandals, know that the JWs are not alone. This is a huge problem in all of Christendom. I have now witnessed it firsthand, things that I would have never thought possible in my pseudo-Calvinist haven. In fact, the very pastor who converted me, was protecting another pastor who is now in prison, indicted as a violent sex offender. The churches also protected a known pedophile, and kept his name hidden from their congregants, which is why he was in our house on a weekly basis, taking pictures of my children, and none of us were supposed to bat an eye for fear of being gossipy or ungodly, until he ended up on a Megan\’s Law list. And there\’s so much more, its practically endless.

    Point is, I wouldn\’t recommend my side of the world to any of you on this site. We deserve what we are getting. Moreover, if you are a former JW or Bible Student, you are doctrinally superior, well ahead of the average Protestant. And I really mean that. I\’ll explain.

    As I mentioned earlier, I was asked to write that article for a ministry which works primarily to free Christians from the outlier cults. For the mainline denominations, converting these groups has been so ghastly, some of our best apologists can\’t get much past the JWs. My job was to explain why. But in reality, quite a few Arians are created in our seminary. There\’s actually a recipe for these conversions. So, I will share with you the other side of the game: How to Deconvert a Mainline or Fundamentalist Protestant to an NT Cultist Christian in Several Longsuffering Steps:

    1. Read Pagan Christianity, by George Barna
    2. Read every book ever written by David Bercot
    3. Read TRUTH IN TRANSLATION by Jason BeDuhn (This is the most important step. After this book, your convert will likely have a breakdown that pushes them to atheism, or…if they are really faithful…)
    4. Read Divine Truth or Human Tradition by Patrick Navas (At this point the convert will begin to think only a handful of people on the planet are practicing the true faith, which is pretty much the conclusion of any truth-seeking Christian.)
    5. Finish them off with Jesus Undefeated by Giles (Not a perfect book, but it will strongly establish the universalist roots of the early church).

    At this point, your convert will be online hunting down any groups that resemble the church he\’s reading about. He will realize that even the modern Anabaptists (Followers of the Way are an amazing group!) are preaching pagan doctrines. There are basically, only two organized Christian groups offering Christianity that looks anything like the first two centuries of the church. But he or she will be terrified of the JWs. So then…he looks to the Bible Students. Picks up the 5th volume. Realizes these people have been teaching this for 150 years. Game over.

    The above recipe, creates a Bible Student who may end up joining the Witnesses, or an atheist who gives up on the whole ordeal. I always wondered where the seminarians who convert to Arianism during Greek translation went, seems the JWs are inheriting them. The lust for chronology, obsessions with Kingdom planning, and the unbelievable demise of their fecundity and family lives, do not always make the Bible Students a desirable option. But, in light of church history, I do not know of any group in existence that is more doctrinally in-line with what the first Christians believed than the Bible Students.

    Don\’t get me wrong. I married into fundamentalism, and plan to die comfortably in my pedophile paradise. But with the exception of my husband, I don\’t trust anyone out here anymore, least of all the women who are married to these pastors and defend them to the death, even after incarceration. I\’m going to have a lot of time to rethink my life\’s choices.

    Anyway, if you ever find yourself with 200 hours of free time. Reading Jason BeDuhn\’s Truth in Translation is a terrific way to ruin your life:) I know most exJWs are already Arian, but the conspiracy that goes into translation is better than anything on TV!


    • jacqueline says:

      Ann good afternoon, and thank you so much for this rich information. Ann, I am so glad you are letting us keep the link up. But I am a grandmother and mother and am aware my children might write something that they want to be erased and I don’t want to hurt or cause anyone distress. But your article explained why it is so difficult to get through better than any I have seen so thanks.
      I think Russell’s thinking was only meant to go on a few years after 1914, Rutherford, 1925, present-day Jehovah witnesses 1975. The theology is based on one concept of dates, dates, dates. None of them ever happen so by Bible standards if a so-called prophet predicts and it doesn’t come true, don’t listen too deeply to him. Even if they are just acting like a prophet.

      I had posted in early January the Oxygen feature and just last night I made it an article so those wanting to know what it is about can go to youtube.

      You don’t know me but Barbara Anderson and I have warned of the deep pedophile issues as early as the 1980s for me. I was the first one or at least one of the first to get in touch with Australia long before the “Royal Commission On Jehovah Witnesses Sex Abuse” convened.
      In 1980 while helping a victim in Ohio the elder confessed to getting away with it because of a sex ring. The same in 2010 when I got a note from a victim in Australia. So this sex thing within religions is terrible!! I don’t really trust my grandkids with any men within the Jehovah witness organization and I continue to warn my adult children.

      You see the warden of the prisons tried to inform the witnesses that the only people studying with them were their pedophiles, but they baptized these men anyway and with all the single sisters within the religion they devastated children. The pedophiles informed other pedophiles that Jehovah’s witnesses is a pedophile paradise because they put down women and are hierarchical. Children are at risk if you stop that “lioness protective spirit” within a mother.
      The governing body apologized for this horrible act of bringing these men on the sisters but it was too late they were embedded. Jehovah’s witness religion is highly sexualized.
      I am with you on not recommended that anyone congregate in big churches. I advocate small Bible study groups of no more than 6-12. The purpose is to study the Bible not form a religion and parents should have family Bible study with their children instead of Sunday Schools and Camps for children away from their parents’ oversight when young. That is just my opinion, which doesn’t mean a thing, lol.
      That is why we have these conference calls to get together in a small group on Thursday. Then on Saturday we have socialization on world events or just listen to testimonies or sing a song. Ha

      Now to the MEAT OF YOU STATEMENT. Is this what you mean when you say Arians? If so I have a comment but first I need to understand what an Arian is.

      Is it this? Arianism is a nontrinitarian Christological doctrine which asserts the belief that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who was begotten by God the Father at a point in time, a creature distinct from the Father and is therefore subordinate to him, but the Son is also God. Wikipedia

      Now I don’t really think the Bible Students or Witnesses are very correct in their doctrines at all, some of them like all religions. But they have major errors. Plus I find the Bible Students to be too political for me. It was just hard being there for 9 years, each class sort of hate the other and bar this one from speaking at their convention and then that one. It was just a backbiting tangle of confusion for me.
      I just did my little thing of helping ex witnesses get out without committing suicide. Then The Chicago Class elders didn’t like that I never pushed Russell as the seventh Messenger or “Ye Olde Faithful Slave”. So I just got enough and packed my bags and left going straight into the Bible with anyone that wants to discuss it.

      I just noticed you used the term “pedophile paradise”. I am known for using that term! I told my experience on the Rick Feason website in 2010 and people thought I was crazy.
      I ended it with Sex, sex, sex. That is what I saw within the Jehovah witness religion. I am done with any organized “Church” as far as joining or attending on a regular basis. I will go to a David Jeremiah event once in a while at the gospel sing fest cause I love to “kum ba yah”(sing spiritual songs lively).
      We are learning so much with just the Bible and Holy Spirit or at least we are trying and not becoming atheist as some witnesses have done. But they are sort of changing now that they have more of us running out of that Organization headed BY 9 BILLIONAIRE gods.

      I will wait to see what you say on Arian before I address it. I was told in 2018 by several Bible Student men at the General Convention that God was favoring the Arian Race right now. But I don’t think that is what you are talking about.

      Loving meeting you every minute like I love your first cousin,

      PS: Write as much as you please we have a reading audience of 14, 000 since we opened up last year.

  12. Ann says:

    Hi Jacqueline,
    I was sent your comment on my Proclamation article by email, I am the author of the article you linked. I am so sorry, but there has some confusion–very understandably. I don\’t actually think the Bible Students are a cult. I know the world and mainstream Christians consider the BS a cult, hands down, but that is because they are trained to believe all Arian groups are cults. When I wrote this article, I gave the publication full editorial rights. They chose the title and header imagery, but I felt my article made a pretty decent case for the BS not being a cult, or at least, if it is a cult, it\’s the least culty cult in existence.

    I know the man in the YouTube channel above. He has legitimate grievances and his family kept terrible secrets. His pain is understandable. Unfortunately, my brother and I had the opposite of his experience. We had godly parents. We loved those eight hour indoctrination camps, lived for conventions, and only left the Bible Students because the Kingdom keeps failing to arrive as scheduled. So I hope my article is not used to justify the image of the BS as an abusive cult. That would be the very opposite of my intention. My job is to illustrate how difficult doctrinal conversions can be for former \”cult\” members. This is actually an indictment of the larger Christian movements, as they have a TERRIBLE time deconverting \”cultists.\” And this is because, many of these cults to a better job instilling doctrine into their members, than Christendom does its own believers. If you are a former JW, be proud. Your theological education is light years beyond the average Christian in the pews. Good luck getting the Trinity passed you guys.

    When I was asked to write for Proclamation, a friend expected that I would include all the juicy bits, the personal failings of elders and families, the Russelite scandals, but I didn\’t. That wouldn\’t have been fair. After all, my own church system has been so wracked by scandals, we\’ve made national headlines so many times over the last ten years. Almost every major icon of this faith is facing charges of molestation cover-ups, sexual addiction, drug addiction, shoddy financial dealings, nepotism, extortion–and yet my dad is still standing. Even my most Orthodox friends are noticing that my Arian parents are still faithfully manning their fair booth, godlying up every day, and are somehow keeping spotless from the world. And that\’s really the biggest problem with the Bible Students. The best Bible Students represent the best Christians. Unbeatable devotion. Unfortunately, there are only five of them, and one just died.

    Anyway, I wish you good luck going forward, and that you meet many strong Christians along the way with whom to fellowship. And I\’m sorry for everything you have suffered, and if your time in the Bible Students resulted in spiritual abuse, then you are fully justified in labeling the movement as an abusive cult. But, because my experience has been just the opposite, know that I am not comfortable with that label. That is not what I intended to convey. To me, they are the least cultish group extant in Christianity, and they are preservers of first and second century Christian doctrine. The sixth volume alone could revolutionize mainline Christianity and I would still be a Bible Student if it weren\’t for that fact that I want to spend the apocalypse amongst Calvinists with guns.

    Best Wishes,

    • jacqueline says:

      Ann hello!! and thanks so much for coming on and commenting.I can understand how you write something and the editor mis-labels it. Did you want me to take it down? It was not on the page it is on now, it was just as an article I found but someone took it and other stuff down and I had to spend a day retrieving information, so I put it on a page that is difficult to hack because of an inbedded you tube.
      I loved your Aunt to death and I know I would have met you at the funeral. Your family in Chicago and J and her husband are so nice. I try now to not subject myself to so much stress so I chose not to attend. But my deepest sympathies to you and your family.
      You tell me if you want the article taken down and I will trash it. I never knew it was out there, I post what I am sent and what I see that will help our over 14,000 readers work their way out of a concept that has held them captive. I was born within the witnesses/ Bible Students and my childhood was just the best!
      I have no need for the in-between people in both segments of teachings. I find so much information by listening to more voices as I believe the Spirit works on Christians. None of us are perfect by a long shot. I try not to know too much about the individual but listen to what they are gleaning and sharing from the Bible.
      I know longer believe there is anything special about the concepts put forth by Russell and find many Christians all over the world are being beheaded for Christ. I am so sorry I listened to the concept that Nominal Christianity was so off. I now realize they have so much right now as many serious seekers are understanding revelation and changing what they formerly believed.
      I don’t get caught up in the trinity, that is another site, fojw, that I used to be on. I feel some of the doctrines and concepts of our former religions are just as bad. We are all trying and God can sort it out if we don’t get discouraged.
      I have not so far been in a religious environment that is as harsh as the Bible Students and the Witnesses. The experiences of not just me but many, many more have been negative.
      But that is okay because Jesus said just two or three and He will be with us.
      So we have a very small Bible Study class on our free conference call and any are invited but we don’t have a need for the Bible Student or Witness view because all of us have spent 20-70 years in them and we know what the concepts are.
      Bible Students sometimes don’t accept that persons have reviewed and said no to their concepts because they really truly believe what they have found in the writings of Russell. That’s okay, I am not the belief police. lol, We on here are just trying to dig out.
      I really am glad you saw my note to you. And just so glad you came on. Do you want me to remove the link from that page.?
      Just say the word and it is done! I got to run and might not see your reply for a few hours. I have clients today.
      Take Care, Jacqueline

  13. jacqueline says:

    I will post our conversations on this article later, I am trying to figure out how to copy comments from your tube.

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