Meet Marjo from Finland
A little bit of her life and journey below.
Go here for more of her story :
http://askjacqueline.life/staying-strong-amidst-difficulties/
Ladies Talking
Hello and Welcome!
My name is Marjo and I am married and we have 3 children together.
I am from Finland and my native language is Finnish.
I was baptized in 2002 and I left from Jehovah Witnesses in 2008.
The reason why I left was that I didn't get support from the congregation when it was needed.
My mother was also a Witness, but she left first. I was very alone in those moments.
When the elder told me that my mother is no longer a Witness
I began to cry. That was the only moment when someone was there for me.
No one ever asked me after that how I was, or have I got over this.
Not even elders didn't come to see me and ask how I was doing after this.
That is when I began to fade away. Then I met my husband in the same job.
Then leaving from Witnesses was easy.
Then I just e-mailed to one elder that I don't want to be a Witness anymore.
There is little of my history from Witness times. I also couldn't stand that dress code.
Now I follow Yeshua only and read the Bible.
I love different cultures and languages. So it is nice to meet new people from all over the world.
Maybe we can learn something from each other 🙂
Hello! It has been long time since I’ve been here.
Where to begin….well…we don’t have freedom of speech in my country anymore. One woman wrote a comment in twitter about church taking part to gay pride. That sin has now become acceptable in church. Now police has begun pretrial investigation about her comment against gay people. She has been accused as incitement to ethnic or racial haterd. Today you have to be careful where to use Bible verses. I guess Bible will be outlaw in the near future.
As a follower of Jesus we should not be afraid of anything. I have been reading encouraging verses from Maccabees where followers of Jesus were faithful to Him in their last breath.
I have also been studying resurrection and came to that point that JW’s has lied to us for ages. Resurrection is a thing that you should not just pick up one verse from the Bible and say this is it how it is.
Anyway I hope you are all well!
-Marjo
Marjo hello, a couple of people asked about you.
Interesting, that moral issues are being treated like social issues such as racism or deformity etc, calling it hate speech.
I heard a Greek minister explain the meaning of porneia. I often wondered why the watchtower society in the 70s had a hard time defining this word. He stated it refers to male on male sexual relations. Not female with female. He said the effeminate one is the male that plays the female role in these relationships.
So the question that was put before him was why the Bible said in revelation ” outside are the dogs” etc. ( I will insert scripture when I get to my computer.)
He said that is what the male temple prostitutes were called and also the pedacrast, the men that had sexual relations with young males.
He said after the thousand years and the judgment of the resurrected dead outside are ones who still identified themselves as gay, cowards etc.
By that time all have had a chance to conform to what Jehovah says is right or wrong.
For instance no Christian would say, “I am gay”. That is not an identity no more than I would say, I am an adulterer when introducing myself or I am a liar when introducing myself. They might say I once practiced porneia but I now follow God’s commands like an adulterer or cleptomaniac (a thief) would say in their testimony. Gay is not who a person is it is a practice of their sexuality.
People are believing the lie all over the world. Even some Ministers are giving in.
Many of us choose to sin but we don’t try to make everyone accept our conduct.
In fact the sexual cletivities of a human should be their own private life and not flaunting it all over the streets.I could care less what men or women are doing in their bedrooms.
I have decided not to discuss it with practicers that want to fill me in on their role and make me a part of their flirting with the same sex while walking with me.
I am done.
Let us know how the trial turns out please.
Now how is your family? I have had visits from my children and grandchildren often this summer. It was an answer to my prayers to just see them again after my stroke, He went further and I had them with me for days on many occasions! He is a Big God and can give more than asked for if we just Trust and Obey Him!
Jacqueline,
Yes I understand. I love my ecclesia. We reason from what the scripture says. We don’t believe something just because Russell said it. Even we say that some of our brethren are Russellites. I asked my ecclesia about how the feel about the race comments Russell said (13/14 of my class is black) and they say it’s not going to stop them from making my calling and election sure. They say they don’t care. . Sad thing is Russell didn’t set things up like this. This is the creature worship that many have come to learn. I love reading Russell’s stuff. But I don’t whole heartily accept it because he said it. Like when he says that there’s a difference between the awakening from the dead and a resurrection. Because the same word “Anastasis” is used for those in the Old Testament.
Hebrews 11:35
“35 Women received their dead by a resurrection [Anastasis]: and others were tortured, not accepting their deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:”
The sadducees didn’t believe in the resurrection. This doesn’t mean that they didn’t believe in a “full standing up” but that they didn’t believe the dead would rise.
Many choose to believe what Russell wrote. I’m surprised many don’t say “If we look at 2 Russell Chapter 3 Verse 9). Some believe everything in those volumes. Some believe that the general call closed in 1881. And we are crown replacements. Um we’ve had way over 144,000 consecrate since 1914 alone. So I guess everyone is falling out.
I love my ecclesia. We discuss and are not Russellites.
I don’t study much on the Pyramid. I used to obsess over it. But Isaiah 19:19,20 to me is weird. Why would God just drop the great pyramid right into the middle of a Bible passage? I study the tabernacle. I have Frey’s note and they are like 700 pages. It’s phenomenal. I read everything tho. I read Jw stuff and have all of the Laymen’s but I don’t accept anything just on a whim. I’m not just going to let anyone kick me out of what I believe to be the truth.
From what I see, some people are attacking Russell because of what the brethren are doing. Russell never viewed himself the way the Bible students do it did in the 1800’s. This is all new. So I don’t blame Russell for what happened or is happening now. Some brethren have absolutely broken off of the Bible students because it brethren but have studied by themselves. They aren’t going to leave what they believe to be the truth nevssoe of man. Many didn’t believe in the Pharisees or Sadducees but they didn’t leave Judaism because it was corrupted by men.
Christopher, so glad you have settled in a class with Christians that use the Bible. That is what the truth is. Tell them all hello for me. Russell is dead and can’t speak for himself and really he is no more an authority on anything than other of the many God-fearing Christians that have the same Holy Spirit, even you and I.
I am not really that concerned about Russell’s racist statements, I grew up in the south under Jim Crowe laws in Birmingham, Al. one of the worse in the union of the 50 states.
You were not on our calls and therefore don’t know how that conversation got started of referring to me as a slave and after a very heated discussion before ALL with a brother in our group the elder started it up again in what he thought was a private conversation between me and him but the BBB was open and I had hit merge by mistake with another brother. Then this man, a Bible student wanted to know what Russell taught about Black people.
So I obliged and printed it publicly. Don’t let that article bother you because we aren’t bothered. It is an answer and about a few interviews and attacks on our group. You aren’t aware therefore you can just ignore that. I am in my 70’s and have learned to effectively deal with the issue of prejudice and will not back down because it makes some uncomfortable. All of us know about the struggles and resistance we had while trying to go straight to the Bible and Christ.
It has nothing to do with you, I simply printed what I found and what a Bible Student elder wanted to know. Case closed.
Russell is dead he should be allowed to rest in peace. I feel God let me go back to see where everything started, I did and I am a writer, so I share. Take from it like you would a buffet, don’t eat what you don’t find appetizing.
We are simply Christians here and our study group has a name Borean Bible students because they were used as an example of what God accepts, searching out for themselves.
I always ask How is your mom? Express my hello to her, please. Take Care
Hey Jacqueline,
Yes I’ve heard most of this. I don’t go back because I had to “come out of her” so that I don’t partake in her plagues. Plus I could never support and bring anyone in who may need a blood transfusion. I recently ran into my old internship teacher and she said I was the reason she went into the WT after years of being inactive. She was the one that told me that they had oedophiles and at that time I didn’t know anything about it. So how she could go back is beyond me. I never used words like “Jehivah’s organization” or “Faithful and Discreet Slave”. I used to cringe when they used those words in prayer at the end of the meeting.
Christ, unless the woman hates the situation she could go back.
I also stopped field service because I couldn’t bring people into an organization that I no longer believed in. I stopped attending book study in 2004 while they were still in homes because I recognized that Israel was who Isaiah was talking about and not Witnesses. After being told by the elder to just accept what the slaves says!, when I revealed I felt we had made a mistake saying we were Israel. I finally said to him he wouldn’t have to worry about me expressing my views anymore. I never attended even when he called me out before others. I just ignored him. I met his relatives in the Bible students. He was from the Chicago break away in the 1930s.
I regard them among the fringe, date setting religions, who feel they are the special body of Christ and not other Christians.
I don’t have a longing for the association because I made friends before I left. Mentally I began disengaging in 1996 after I toured and saw the governing body for who they were when I visited Bethel often. Because I knew this my accountability before God has to be respected. He knew I saw things that revealed these people are not right. They are billionaires and living the life. Harsher than any of the entertainers I traveled with. In fact, I learned more about God and His love by participating in our religious service while touring. These people loved God.
Jehovah knows I have researched the beginning of the religion and know it is the foundation that has an exclusive us only belief. They believe you can just read or listen to their material and understand and not understand if you just use the Bible.
Christopher, I understand routine. I never miss reading the Bible every day. And every Thursday and Saturday we meet together. So I understand how it feels to meet together. So much money is wasted going to conventions and paying large sums for rooms and food. We can see each other in our free conference calling. For Memorial 6 of us were actually sitting with each other and the other 10 or so, including their children, were at the conference call.
We communicate on the site because it gives us a sense of we can reach out at any time to talk.
It is strange that this website “Ask Jacqueline” was created as a page for a teenager who wanted to talk to me, Her mother and I was opening a page to help the teenagers speak in private without other adults knowing what they were saying. It was to have a password to get on, but God saw differently and this is what we have.
We had a lot of people trying to sabotage us in the beginning but they didn’t know it was God who sent this page down this path, by one teenage girl saying, mommy, I want to speak with Jacqueline about something private.
So in conclusion, you don’t have to belong to an organization or an association and burn a lot of money traveling to get to God.
Christopher, we have to keep focus on who the enemy really is. This is a spiritual war and the enemy is satan. He may use people to his end to take us out.
Satan is a deceiver and a liar. He is a great divider he is especially active within the Church. We are playing into the hands of satan when don’t allow association because of not obeying the thoughts of a few men or one.
To say one goes to second death because they don’t obey the heads of the organization is destruction with our mouths!
Satan’s job is to divide and deceive. He uses immorality to bring down whole classes. Indifference of some who says I will just sit here and not speak out or up or vote with their feet and leave large groups.
Gossip is another divisive force used by satan.
Satan is invisible but if these things are prevalent within a Church it has been taken over by demonic teachings.
There is no neutral ground on this battleground and we do have to take a stand and not have other gods, whose words are stronger than the word of God.
Religions that I have associated with in my lifetime are all worshippers of a man, organization and their literature is Bible rather than the word of God.
Getting as near to the occult with pyramids bouncing all over charts and sacrificing children with no blood policies is just to close to what satan likes and deals in.
Just a few thoughts on how serious I take it in going back to things closer to the works of satan. It is okay to worship God with two or three. That is clear in the Bible.
Satan is a created creature who will fight Michael but Not God and staying under the power of God protects us.
For me it means watching the deception of false teachings in books and pamphlets.
Jacqueline,
I absolutely loved being a JW. My Kingdom Hall was amazing. Even after I left when I was treated like crap at the convention my elder offered me a seat with him at the convention. He said he would always help me. I miss the JWs very much. The culture and the friends and feeling like I had a purpose. Somewhere to be on Wed and Sunday. But the idea that not everyone will be raised and that everyone will go into second death who die in Armageddon and that we should reject a blood transfusion is beyond me.
Hi Christopher, worshipers of God all have different paths they take as far as association is concerned.
I don’t really care about religions doctrines if I see the BIBLE clearly does not teach it. I can believe what I see from Scripture.
The Governing body of The So-called ” Jehovah” witnesses organization required worship of them as men and as an idol.
One statement made was even if you can prove us wrong by scriptures, you must teach it until we change the teaching.
I can reject them on that because the Bible clearly teaches that Gods’ word is to be found true and every man a liar.
They harbor and protect pedophiles and elders that are immoral and preys on the flock. Meaning they will act against the victim and anyone supporting the victim or reporting abuses.
This puts them in the dangerous and bad association category. To associate and follow their warped thinking may just cause me to become like them. Many regular attendees go along with and support these actions and policies of the governing body and its elders, circuit overseers, etc.
My health situation is between me and my doctor, My father took blood transfusions and defied the organization to do something about it.
I have gone into the hospital for serious operations and never informed the congregation on quite a few occasions. I never had a visit from anyone but my immediate family and that was limited.
Adults don’t have to call these people when you go to the hospital and many Witnesses have been brought in by being targeted and so you have a bunch of people that will listen in their home and obey, Any answering the door with questions or put up a barrier are written off as goats and no effort is made to convert those people.
So you have an organization full of gullible, immature, immoral(Pedophiles like these type of religions and organizations) and people too lazy to handle their private affairs.
No one can determine the second death. The Bible clearly says anyone not written in the Lambs book of life goes there. It isn’t that hard to understand. Your doctor will give a blood transfusion if his patient agrees, they don’t consult with your elders.
So I left because of obedience not to have another God before his face, even if it is nine or one man,men.
Yes I am glad that his foster dad knew what kind of people Witnesses are. I told him to look after that boy so Witnesses would not bother him.
Do you have problems with internet and social media over there? I’ve seen lots of reports about internet problem in the US. Some say that it is caused by quakes that is messing with the cables.
Marjo, no I haven’t had any problems with my internet. Perhaps in the areas where the earthquakes were, they might have a lot of cables carried internet. Or the earthquakes and over a thousand aftershocks could be a problem. Our news is distracted a lot by the antics in the White House, so we miss out on some important news, a great distraction for now.
I sincerely hope your son’s guardian heeds your advise and keep yall away from the Witnesses. I would be great however for him to learn the Bible itself. He has the internet and can find some great men of faith that have no agenda to worship a “Faithful and Discreet Slave”.
Read over Bro. Dave commet for this week and tell us your thoughts. Take care.
Hello! I have had a busy week. My husband’s son came to visit for 2 days. I had a chance to speak some sense for him, because few Witnesses were bothering him. One of them called to him and asked when they could meet him. He also gave them his e-mail address, but that was a mistake. Obviously they are still keeping book of people whom they have met, even tho it is now illegal in our country. When I explained to him what kind of these people really are he understood. I spoke to his foster parent about this and he also spoke to him that they are not good for him. So I think my husband’s son understood.
Of course I told him that it is enough when you believe that Christ is son of God and he died for us and rose from the grave and read the Bible.
Marjo, you have saved a young person from the pain of going through the total takeover and destruction of his young life. You have reached a relative, which is unusual. I find it to mentally exhausting speaking to my immediate family and since I know Jesus got this I choose not to bring up religion with them.
Sometimes however one of them will bring it up or ask about a scripture. I have found the anger is so great if I answer that I don’t speak just let them tell me what they see. I have had to deal with a delicate subject this month within the family and the emotional toll just isn’t worth it. I have decided to deal with my family that is abusive to me. If illness strike I have learned it is best not to call that person because they will say even while ill I don’t talk to you.
This is good in a way because now I don’t have to feel bad when there is a death and I won’t have to attend now. That saves me mental harm.
Enjoy your family. I am enjoying the ones that are in my life and realizing many people on this earth don’t have blood family or only one or two persons. As the number shrinks, I have more time to spend with the ones I love and all my spiritual brothers and sisters.
Silver lining to every storm!
Part 3 (Hope)
None of us, are born complete and with soundness of mind, body and spirit when compared to “perfect” man. I believe in ancient Jewish culture, they were not only aware of the need for God’s promised messiah and humanities need to be restored/remade, but I think it was reflected even in the meaning behind certain words. As you probably know Shalom is an Israelite greeting similar to hello and goodbye, but this is only a very small aspect of its intended meaning.
To quote Karina Allen (2017) https://www.incourage.me/author/karina2
“Shalom is a Hebrew word meaning completeness, wholeness, health, peace, welfare, safety, soundness, tranquility, prosperity, perfectness, fullness, rest, harmony, or the absence of agitation or discord. It comes from the root verb shalom, which means to be complete, perfect, and full.”
Shalom is not just a greeting, it is a hope on another’s behalf, that God give to that person what they are lacking in their lives so that they are made whole and receive God’s peace. God’s peace is not like man’s peace (John 14:27). When I think about examples like this, I am reminded of God’s promise to restore all those who love him and keep his laws (Jeremiah 29:11). God desires the complete restoration of the spiritual, physical, moral, mental, and emotional human. Peace from God is freedom from all conflict within our members and more importantly with him. God’s commitment to the restoration of all things including the return of humanity to a whole and complete state cannot be understated. It was through the death of his beloved son who sacrificed his life to give humanity the opportunity to experience true peace through the reunification of spirit and an absence of sin and death (Hebrews 9:15).
Presently, all who are born into the world are inexperienced, underdeveloped, and suffer in a world that does not have the ability to meet all of mankind’s needs. Many individuals struggle to find some measure of happiness in this fleetingly temporary existence (James 4:14). All of us currently live that fall short of God’s loving intentions for us, as none of reach our full potential nor are able to experience the delight and wonder that God intended when the human race was created. As a result, we all suffer spiritual physical and mental depreciation as we navigate our existence, but some of us more than others 2 Corinthians 4:8.
It is with great appreciation that God has given us a King and intercessor that understands the plight of those most in disharmony physically, spiritually, and morally. It was the custom of some kings in ancient times to send their son who would succeed him to the worst provinces in order to learn how to govern more effectively. During the acceptable year of the Lord, humanity got a taste of the good things to come and glimpse into the compassion of God and Christ for imperfect humanity (Mark 2:16-17). Everyone regardless of the burdens that we carry can look forward to the future with confidence. Moreover, we should also look to Jesus examples of mercy and do what is within our power to try to fill the holes in our brothers and sisters, so that they are not broken in spirit because of the weight they carry (Galatians 6:2). Let our conduct towards those who are not living in sin but born with burdens reflect that we are a people of God that builds up and comfort those in their tribulation and do not needlessly tear down and destroy.
PART 2 (Pain of not living a complete existence)
There are some inherent social stigma’s in many societies that can be projected onto individuals that suffer biological abnormalities. These abnormalities can include sexual infirmity due to illness, injury or genetics. Many cultures in history and in the present can also discriminate people with these conditions by attributing the condition to supernatural sources resulting from sin or divine disfavor.
When I was contemplating the biblical account of Elizabeth’s (John the Baptists mother) I imagined what might have been a very difficult existence for her and her husband. According to the Gospel of Luke, Elizabeth was “of the daughters of Aaron” (1:5). She and her husband Zachariah were “righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless” (1:6–7), but childless.
As Elizabeth’s husband was a priest in the order of Zadok, it must have attracted the attention of the community that the many prayers likely to have been made over the years on Elizabeth’s behalf had gone unanswered by God. This was not an easy stigma for women who were not able to conceive to endure (1 Samuel 1:6) (Genesis 30:1). The shame and quiet accusations that Elizabeth might have had to bear all her adult married life must have been painful to say the least.
Elizabeth had a little in common with the blind man, in that they both suffered from biological malfunctions that prevented them from living normal and happy lives and likely felt disconnected in some ways from others in their community due to possible shame and ostracism. Jesus provided a loving and balanced view in answering Peters socially prejudice assertions about the handicap. Not only were we not to assume that birth defects and disabilities are a result of sin, but that “the works of God might be displayed” in the lives of people with disabilities when God’s blessings are at work in their lives (John 9:1-12). This was certainly the case in both Elizabeth’s condition and in the man born blind (Luke 1:25).
We should not as believers judge the bad that is present in a person’s life as an indication of poor character and we should not assume that individuals with birth abnormalities that cause abnormalities in their sexual identities and function to be inherently outside of Gods grace. Bad things do not only happen to bad people as Jesus attempted to correct this prevailing incorrect view of cause and effect (Luke 13:4).
REVISED COMMENT(s) ?
I read your reply, and my heart truly goes out to your friend and Brother/sister in Christ, who must live life essentially caught between two existences. These are situations that cause spiritual conundrums among those in the theological community and lead to overly liberal or overly condemnatory spiritual verdicts. It does not help that some of those in positions of authority in churches and spiritual institutions do not understand psycho-sexual development well enough from a scientific perspective. I think that if more accurate and factual information were factored into discussions like this, spiritual counselors would be better informed about the emotional and social implications of abnormal sexual development. Sexuality is not only a spiritual matter and the topic could be addressed more broadly. This would make spiritual counsel more balanced, compassionate, and effective. I also agree with you, that the problem for people who do not fit neatly into male/female categories is complicated and there is a tendency to oversimplify the discussion. Some being well meaning but uniformed opt to Tell these affected individuals to leave things in God’s hands. While this is an important aspect of relying on God’s strength, it shouldn’t take place of practical help, compassion and support from those in a position to give it. It also fails to acknowledge the reality of the effects of stigma, which can lead to depression and social isolation that often accompanies problems like these (James 2:16).
As it stands, we (as a society) don’t yet know the full extent of how man’s changes to our environment are affecting issues like gender and sexual identity (on a genetic level). I still maintain it is fair to conclude that there is enough credible evidence to more than infer that these alterations are causing fundamental changes in the intended gene expression in some exposed people. I can’t think of a more basic human right violation than to remain unmolested by chemicals during fetal development.
We are also not having the right kind of discussions on the subject as a society. If we know that we can observe and confirm that herbicides and chemicals are altering the sexual development of affected animals, then it is not a stretch to believe that this is happening in humans.
Our loving God did not intend any of us to live with innate needs that were destined to go unfulfilled (Matthew 6:8). We now know (scientifically) that unmet needs (both psychological and physical) cause very real tension and discomfort in all of us. One theory called drive reduction theory by Clark Hull is a theory that postulates that our external behaviors are an outward indication of an inward desire to fulfill an unmet need. But there are some needs that we may not be able to fulfill and living with that discomfort can be painful and difficult.
God in his mercy has promised to sustain our existence (as faithful believers) but has not promised that our existence would be free of want and devoid of suffering (Isaiah 43:2). He has promised us that in the future he will create a world free of suffering and we will find perfect fulfillment and happiness (Romans 8:21) (2 Corinthians 4:17).
Because of this hope and our respect for God’s authority, we as humans do not have any right to fulfill our perceived needs at God’s expense. This is especially true when God has made his views expressly clear on a matter (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Although we are free moral agents, there are rights we have, but also certain responsibilities we must maintain along with this freedom. We must keep our bodies and minds in accordance to the boundaries that he has set (1 Corinthians 10:23). To do otherwise would be to reject his authority as our maker (Deuteronomy 10:12-13).
There are many individuals both hetero and homosexual who are living lives of abstinence and celibacy. They do this because they are unwilling to break God’s law in order to meet needs that would come at expense of their personal relationship with God (1 Corinthians 10:13). Churches and congregations can be an enormous source of comfort and encouragement to these individuals as they are excellent examples of Christian integrity. These ones can helped to maintain their integrity through the safety and support that a good spiritual support system can provide (Romans 15:5) (Romans 15:1-2) (Matthew 25:35-39).
It should always be kept in mind that God understands and sees what we all endure. My father said something to me once that had a profound impact on me. He said, “God doesn’t just see when you make a mistake, he sees every time that you don’t as well”. God desires each of us to keep on enduring and to not tire out, because our sacrifices now will pave the way for an eternity of peace in God’s Kingdom.
Hi Jacqueline,
I wanted to revise my last post as I felt it was an important topic. I wanted to support God’s natural law and his views on how humans should express themselves sexually and always offer agreement with scripture. I wanted to make my statements moderate and reflecting a mild temperament which does not lead to overly liberal or overly dogmatic views on scriptural subjects where there are no express grounds to support it. I also re-read my response and realized that I convey my thoughts are so much better when my blood oxygen levels are stable lol. I am feeling much better since I have received treatment and wanted to thank all of you who prayed on my behalf. I didn’t get to thank all of you and have missed our wonderfully up-building conference calls this week, but I wanted to tell all of you that you really do mean the world to me and have been a comfort in my tribulation. I have decided to try and scale back on writing, just a wee bit so while I am in treatment so that the quality doesn’t suffer. I do enjoy the up-building exchange on our site, but I would like it better if I am sure I am rightly understood. I don’t think that I will slow my participation too much, but I need to adjust things a little and I appreciate your invaluable help in assisting me with finding a good balance and helping me as you have. I truly appreciate the time that I have been given with you all and the love and encouragement that abounds with all of you. I truly feel loved and accepted and I appreciate everyone’s commitment to making sure of all things and striving to provide an environment that promotes spiritual growth, absence of anything offensive to God, and true brotherly love. I love all of you and I wish you all a wonderful blessed and spirit filled week.
Hi Jacqueline,
I read your reply, and my heart truly goes out to your friend and Brother/sister in Christ, who must live life essentially caught between two existences. These are situations that cause spiritual conundrums among those in the theological community and lead to overly liberal or overly condemnatory spiritual verdicts. It does not help that some of those in positions of authority in churches and spiritual institutions do not understand psycho-sexual development well enough from a scientific perspective. I think that if more accurate and factual information was factored into discussions like this, spiritual counselors would be better informed about the emotional and developmental implications of abnormal sexual development. Sexuality is not only a spiritual matter and the topic should be addressed more broadly. This would make spiritual counsel more balanced, compassionate, informed and most of all effective (Philippians 1:9).
Our loving God did not intend any of us to live with innate needs that were destined to go unfulfilled (Matthew 6:8). We now know (scientifically) that unmet needs (both psychological and physical) cause very real tension and discomfort in all of us. One theory called drive reduction theory by Clark Hull is a theory that postulates that our external behaviors are an outward indication of an inward desire to meet an unmet need. When we are hungry, we eat, thirsty we drink, disconnected from God we pray, but there are some needs that we may not be in apposition to fulfill and living with that discomfort can be painful and difficult. God in his mercy has promised to sustain our existence (as faithful believers) but has not promised that our existence would be free of want and devoid of suffering (Isaiah 43:2). He has promised us that in the future he will create a world free of suffering and we will find perfect fulfillment and happiness (Romans 8:21) (2 Corinthians 4:17).
Because of this hope and our respect for God, we as humans do not have any right to fulfill our needs at God’s expense when has clearly made his views and laws clear on a matter (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Although we are free moral agents, there are rights and responsibilities we must maintain our bodies and minds in accordance with the boundaries that he has set (1 Corinthians 10:23). To do otherwise would be to reject his authority as our maker and there is no other way of viewing this (Deuteronomy 10:12-13)
There are many individuals both hetero and homosexual who are living lives of celibacy because they are unwilling to break God’s law in order to meet their needs in a way that would compromise their relationship with God (1 Corinthians 10:13). Churches and congregations can be an enormous source of comfort and encouragement to these individuals as they are good examples of Christian integrity and need the safety and support of their spiritual brothers and sisters (Romans 15:5) (Romans 15:1-2) (Matthew 25:35-39). It should be remembered that God understands and sees what we all endure. My father said something to me once that had a profound impact on me. He said, “God doesn’t just see when you make a mistake, he sees every time that you don’t as well”.
Everyone should keep enduring and not tire out because our sacrifices now will pave the way for an eternity of peace in God’s Kingdom. I also agree with you, that the problem (people who do not fit neatly into male/female categories) is more complicated than our society would like to admit. Telling these affected individuals that it’s in Gods hands (in place of practical help and compassion), is dismissive of the reality of “STIGMA” depression and social isolation that they face (James 2:16) Many societies both past and present have shown a tendency to believe that any type of disability, infirmity or birth defect is a moral reflection on the sufferer or his parents. One of the overlooked possibilities in Elizabeth’s case of barrenness was that she was of the Levitical line, and her husband (John the Baptist’s father) was a Kohen (priest) in the order of Zadok. Recall that Peter asked Jesus whose sin caused the blind man to be born blind and Peter was selected to be the rock of Christs congregations and shared this sadly common belief that bad things evidently only happened to bad people (Luke 13:4).
During Jesus time (and in Jewish history), for a Jewish woman (married to a priest no less) not to be unable to conceive a child despite the many prayers likely offered by her husband and he would have been highly suspect (1 Samuel 1:6)(Genesis 30:1). The shame and quiet accusations that she and her husband might have had to bear all her adult married life must have been painful, to say the least. In her case, just as Jesus corrected Peter, infirmity exists so that God’s glory might be manifested, and it was for Elizabeth when he made her whole by allowing her to conceive a child (Luke 1:25).
When I think about examples like this, I am reminded of God’s promise to restore all those who love him and keep his laws (Jeremiah 29:11). As you probably know Shalom is an Israelite greeting similar to hello and goodbye, but this is only a very small aspect of its intended meaning. To quote Karina Allen (2017)
“Shalom is a Hebrew word meaning completeness, wholeness, health, peace, welfare, safety, soundness, tranquility, prosperity, perfectness, fullness, rest, harmony, or the absence of agitation or discord. It comes from the root verb shalom, which means to be complete, perfect, and full.”
Shalom is not just a greeting, it is requesting a blessing from God that he gives to a person what they are lacking in their lives so that they are made whole so that they have God’s peace. God’s peace is not like man’s peace (John 14:27). God desires the complete restoration of the spiritual, physical, moral, mental, and emotional human. Peace from God is freedom from all conflict within our members and more importantly with him. God’s commitment to the restoration of all things including the return of humanity to a whole and complete state cannot be understated. It was through the death of his beloved son who sacrificed his life to give humanity the opportunity to experience true peace through the reunification of spirit and flesh without the conflict of sin and the threat of death and decay (Hebrews 9:15).
Until we reach this promised reality where God will heal all of humanity, we are all born and die in a world that does not truly meet all of our needs, we are tormented by our imperfect flesh and we struggle many of us to find some measure of happiness in this fleetingly temporary existence (James 4:14). Even under the best circumstances, a human is denied the opportunity to live and reach their full potential as God intended when the human race was created. As a result, we all suffer spiritually physically and mentally as we navigate our existence, but some of us more than others 2 Corinthians 4:8.
When Jesus began his ministry, it wasn’t to the spiritually sound only that he took the good things that God had to give during the acceptable year, it was to the profoundly spiritually, morally, and physically unsound. The poor, the sinners, the tax collectors, the infirm, the demon oppressed and the dead (Mark 2:16-17). These were the ones most out of step with their physical and spiritual reality and in the most need of compassion and restoration because they were the furthest from being whole. We should all look to Jesus example and do what is within our power to try to fill the holes in our brothers and sisters so that they are not broken in spirit because of the weight they carry (Galatians 6:2). People of God build up and comfort those in their tribulation and do not needlessly tear down and destroy.
Do not let the son of the foreigner who has joined himself to the Lord speak, saying, “The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”; nor let the eunuch say, “Here I am, a dry tree.” For thus says the Lord: “To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose what pleases Me, and hold fast My covenant, even to them I will give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off. Also the sons of the foreigner who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants; everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, and holds fast My covenant; even them I will bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on My altar; for My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.” The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says, “Yet I will gather to him others besides those who are gathered to him.” Isaiah 56:3-8
Rene thank you so much for the deeper definition of what Shalom means, it is a fuller meaning than hello. “Let tho Kingdom come” is a full phrase also. It means all wrongs will be righted and there will be harmony in body, mind, spirit, and heaven. Mary and Jesus suffered them saying he was a bastard child whose father wasn’t known. Abraham and Sarah were as you mentioned a disgrace to be barren, but at 100 and 90, God showed it is me who removes curses!
Paul says that creation was subjected to futility in Romans 8:20-21 ESV:
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.”
Who is the one referred to by the phrase, “him who subjected it”? The overall context of Romans suggests God, Adam, and Satan as possible options.
God
If we read the entire sentence, we see that “him who subjected it” subjected it to futility.
“Subjected” here is the Greek word hypotassō, which means to “arrange” or “set in order” (reference).
“Futility” here is mataios which means “devoid of force”, “useless”, “vain” (reference)
So, “him who subjected it” is the one who [set it in order] of [vanity].
We can see quite clearly that it was God who set creation in the order of vanity and futility:
Genesis 3:17-19 (NIV)
17 To Adam, he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’
“Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil, you will eat food from it all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food
until you return to the ground since from it you were taken;
for dust you are and to dust, you will return.”
Furthermore, we can see this supported by a couple of verses in Isaiah:
Isaiah 2:5-6 (NIV)
5 The earth is defiled by its people; they have disobeyed the laws, violated the statutes and broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore a curse consumes the earth; its people must bear their guilt. Therefore earth’s inhabitants are burned up, and very few are left.
In this passage, we see that Adam and his descendants were the ones to violate the covenant (in verse 5), but it’s the curse that consumes the earth. This is the same curse we see in Genesis 3 given by God. While humans bear the guilt of the curse, it was God who was the creator of the curse.
Summary
While both Adam and God were responsible for subjecting the world (setting it in order) in the Garden of Eden, the one who subjected it to futility was God.
So it is GOD that will remove the curse of genetic anomalies, pain and all of the climate and social problems of this world because He will prove to creation both in heaven and earth that He alone can do this.
ADDITIONAL
If you look at the video provided below, the lecturer also mentions that Atrazine also has been implicated in animal and human studies where several other chronic illnesses and diseases where connected to the herbicide. These illness include neuro damage, abortion, immune failure, prostate disease, impaired mammary development which causes developmental problems in the next generation, breast cancer, cancers, menstrual disruption, pregnancy and conception problems. These diseases can affect consecutive generations even though the parent or grandparent was directly contaminated via rain or groundwater for example.
It should also be noted that the rates of cancer in areas affected by Atrazine are disproportionately higher in minority and low-income communities where manufacturing plants, and higher rates of contamination are present. I had wondered why birth rates where dropping in America, breast and prostate cancers are becoming more and more common, and children are developing illnesses and diseases at an alarmingly early and increased rate. None of the explanations I have researched adequately explain this unprecedented increase or truthfully attempt to discuss underlying causes.
Health care costs are increasing, and our economy is becoming dependent on the increased numbers of sick and disabled individuals. The toll that this is taking on our society has not really being discussed and the burdens disease places on families and individuals both economically, socially and psychologically. If our low birth rates in America where taken seriously, one might worry that we are losing members of our society faster than we can replace them.
Jacqueline,
I think that the subject of homosexuality and gender classification is so multifaceted because it relies on psychosocial dynamics in addition to what I believe to be environmental. One of the problems especially in America, is an inability to reconcile the helpful aspects of modern conveniences, with the potential harm and long/short term dangers. There is a very large equality gap between corporations and product manufacturers and the average American in terms of the difference in power. We have experienced in America a significant change in consumer protection policies including rights to legal recourse against product manufacturers. Some of what we know about the safety of some of the man-made (not naturally occurring) consumer or agricultural products comes from studies that might be lower in scope (i.e. bare minimum for clearance to take to market) and do not give us a clear picture of long term implications.
We have in our ecosystem multiple chemicals that are known teratogen’s (chemicals that can cross the placental barrier and attack a fetus in eutero) and endocrine disruptors (chemicals that disrupt the endocrine system). One of the pesticides that is been shown to fall into both of these categories is a pesticide called Atrazine. Atrazine is one of the most used pesticides in the world and America uses it to the tune of roughly 80 million pounds per year.
Why is this important to our discussion about gender and sexual identity? Because this pesticide has been shown in studies to cause significant changes in the gender and sexual orientation of the developing amphibian test subjects. When I say significant, I should say catastrophic! “Previous studies showed that Atrazine demasculinized (chemically castrates) and feminizes exposed amphibian larvae, resulting in hermaphrodites (8, 10) or males with testicular oocytes (7, 9) at metamorphosis” (Hayes et al., 2010).
Some of the test subjects although genetically male grew female genitalia and began to mate with other male frogs and produced only male offspring. In these male frogs, their hormone profile was so classically female that male frogs began to mount them to a frenzied degree, and the female frogs refused to mate with them because their hormone profile did not readily identify them as male. Other male frogs grew to develop and produce dysfunctional eggs within their testes and others where blatantly hermaphroditic. Other males had so little serum testosterone that they had no interest in mating or reproducing, others developed protruding cloacal labia (female genitalia) which once again represented complete gender reversal. If you are tempted to think that frogs and humans are so different that the results of this study are apples and oranges, consider this.
Frogs like the African clawed frog share similarities in hormones with humans to the extent that these frogs where used to determine pregnancy in women. Urine from a suspected pregnant woman was injected into the frog. If she contained hormones consistent with pregnancy, then the frog would start to produce eggs. This is why these subjects where used and why the results where so distressing as they could logically be applied to the human population. Since Atrazine is in agricultural runoff, ground water and many other places and breaks down very slowly, scientists could tell by this study the long-term implications of contamination through generational studies (with faster gestation periods than humans) in these frogs.
I would find it completely intellectually dishonest to have any discussions about the unprecedented number of global movements towards non-traditional sexual orientation, or gender identity, without considering the possibility of environmental factors being at least in some part a highly suspected contributing cause. I believe that if we as a society where to confirm what some scientists strongly theorize (others have spelled out), then we would be looking at one of the worst crimes against humanity of unimaginable magnitude. This would also take the conversations about the suspected war on men and masculinity and the merits of of the “so called” toxic male in a very interesting direction.
Reform would inevitably follow in our current checks and balance system for allowing and monitoring man made chemicals in our biosphere and most likely an unprecedented public backlash against chemical manufacturers. If I had to guess as to a possible reason as to why such a social taboo as homosexuality was inexplicably given a green light globally amidst centuries of persecution and embraced could have something to do with obscuring the common source of where this phenomenon stems (AKA damage control). It is far better for those affected to think that their condition came from nature rather than a man in a lab coat.
If any of you have the time, I highly recommend you read the study I have provided and if you are not familiar with endocrine disruptors and the links to neurological deficiencies/disorders, and increased risks for chronic illnesses and diseases in children. Atrazine incidentally is banned by the European Union.
Atrazine Study
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842049/
Atrazine Whistle Blower
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHqKfixPmps
Reference
Hayes, T. B., Khoury, V., Narayan, A., Nazir, M., Park, A., Brown, T., … Gallipeau, S. (2010). Atrazine induces complete feminization and chemical castration in male African clawed frogs (Xenopus laevis). Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 107(10), 4612–4617. doi:10.1073/pnas.0909519107
Rene this is well presented and needed. I know definitely that a brother was hermaphrodite. The discussion with him indicated he tried the homosexual world but although he was accepted he liked women. The decision was made to choose one sex and practice it by the witnesses. However, he had full function of both organs. He was a dear and I know Jehovah knows these situations exist.
The world at large isn’t aware of the seed mingling going on with the test tube babies either. That’s another story.
It is easy to say Jehovah will take care of it if you weren’t made aware as you have so eloquently done and thank you.
I had another patient that confused me as to how to address him/her. Tomorrow I will tell you about it. I need to check my notes for accuracy. Okay, the male and I had sessions and we discussed his journey, He never had surgery, hormones or any augmentative therapies. You didn’t know if you were looking at a male or female as neither gender was more prominent than the other. Hairline, the softness of skin were more feminine but the voice was more male. His case is an example of gestational absorption of his twin. His twin was a female and he was fully both.
As you showed some things we see now are generational curse passed down from what great grandparents ingested chemically or a gene. We see it in other diseases but have problems when it comes to recognizing it in sexual presentations.
I had another close relative where the coroner autopsy revealed abnormalities. I explained that the mother was on medication to avoid abortion of him as a fetus, and it passed the barrier. She was told not to have a female within 2-5 years of taking these meds. But we have followed the history and girls born even 9 years later were sterile and it affected the boys to a great degree.
I participated in a study at University on other matters along this line and can vouch for the facts as you presented them.
This is to help persons following on the site to see we understand the problems out there and when quoting scripture we are not being callused but empathize with loving support.
I tried once to just let some brothers listen to a talk that attempted to address the issues as this brother saw it from the Bible. He was the most loving man you could ever come across.
That is the last time I used Facebook as a platform and I had to eventually close the subject erase it and unfriend all religious persons. The religious brothers were ruthless!
You have paved the way to open this Bible-based talk up again and let anyone who receives comfort receive it and anyone that falls under the words he will show where Jehovah is clear on homosexuality feel the pain.
I think it deserves a listen at least. I am going to look it up and post it at the bottom of the page for those that want to listen to him deal with a difficult subject from a Biblical God breathed view.
I think that the subject of homosexuality and gender classification is so multifaceted because it relies on psychosocial dynamics in addition to what I believe to be environmental. One of the problems especially in America, is an inability to reconcile the helpful aspects of modern conveniences, with the potential harm and long/short term dangers. There is a very large equality gap between corporations and product manufacturers and the average American in terms of the difference in power. We have experienced in America a significant change in consumer protection policies including rights to legal recourse against product manufacturers. Some of what we know about the safety of some of the man-made (not naturally occurring) consumer or agricultural products comes from studies that might be lower in scope (i.e. bare minimum for clearance to take to market) and do not give us a clear picture of long term implications.
We have in our ecosystem multiple chemicals that are known teratogen’s (chemicals that can cross the placental barrier and attack a fetus in eutero) and endocrine disruptors (chemicals that disrupt the endocrine system). One of the pesticides that is been shown to fall into both of these categories is a pesticide called Atrazine. Atrazine is one of the most used pesticides in the world and America uses it to the tune of roughly 80 million pounds per year.
Why is this important to our discussion about gender and sexual identity? Because this pesticide has been shown in studies to cause significant changes in the gender and sexual orientation of the developing amphibian test subjects. When I say significant, I should say catastrophic! “Previous studies showed that Atrazine demasculinized (chemically castrates) and feminizes exposed amphibian larvae, resulting in hermaphrodites (8, 10) or males with testicular oocytes (7, 9) at metamorphosis” (Hayes et al., 2010).
Some of the test subjects although genetically male grew female genitalia and began to mate with other male frogs and produced only male offspring. In these male frogs, their hormone profile was so classically female that male frogs began to mount them to a frenzied degree, and the female frogs refused to mate with them because their hormone profile did not readily identify them as male. Other male frogs grew to develop and produce dysfunctional eggs within their testes and others where blatantly hermaphroditic. Other males had so little serum testosterone that they had no interest in mating or reproducing, others developed protruding cloacal labia (female genitalia) which once again represented complete gender reversal. If you are tempted to think that frogs and humans are so different that the results of this study are apples and oranges, consider this.
Frogs like the African clawed frog share similarities in hormones with humans to the extent that these frogs where used to determine pregnancy in women. Urine from a suspected pregnant woman was injected into the frog. If she contained hormones consistent with pregnancy, then the frog would start to produce eggs. This is why these subjects where used and why the results where so distressing as they could logically be applied to the human population. Since Atrazine is in agricultural runoff, ground water and many other places and breaks down very slowly, scientists could tell by this study the long-term implications of contamination through generational studies (with faster gestation periods than humans) in these frogs.
I would find it completely intellectually dishonest to have any discussions about the unprecedented number of global movements towards non-traditional sexual orientation, or gender identity, without considering the possibility of environmental factors being at least in some part a highly suspected contributing cause. I believe that if we as a society where to confirm what some scientists strongly theorize (others have spelled out), then we would be looking at one of the worst crimes against humanity of unimaginable magnitude. This would also take the conversations about the suspected war on men and masculinity and the merits of of the \”so called\” toxic male in a very interesting direction.
Reform would inevitably follow in our current checks and balance system for allowing and monitoring man made chemicals in our biosphere and most likely an unprecedented public backlash against chemical manufacturers. If I had to guess as to a possible reason as to why such a social taboo as homosexuality was inexplicably given a green light globally amidst centuries of persecution and embraced could have something to do with obscuring the common source of where this phenomenon stems (AKA damage control). It is far better for those affected to think that their condition came from nature rather than a man in a lab coat.
If any of you have the time, I highly recommend you read the study I have provided and if you are not familiar with endocrine disruptors and the links to neurological deficiencies/disorders, and increased risks for chronic illnesses and diseases in children. Atrazine incidentally is banned by the European Union.
Atrazine Study
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842049/
Atrazine Whistle Blower
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHqKfixPmps
Reference
Hayes, T. B., Khoury, V., Narayan, A., Nazir, M., Park, A., Brown, T., … Gallipeau, S. (2010). Atrazine induces complete feminization and chemical castration in male African clawed frogs (Xenopus laevis). Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 107(10), 4612–4617. doi:10.1073/pnas.0909519107
Jacqueline,
The holy spirit is so fascinating the way that it ties the views of one believer to another so that they compliment each other in the sharing of the good news. What is plain in the scriptures is that God has given us a purpose for our existence, and our natural world is governed by laws that maintain and enhance our existence. In the wonderful scriptures, you cited it clearly informed us of what God deems natural and natural about human behaviors and activities. Sin in its most basic form is the thought which leads to actions that run contrary to God’s natural law for humanity.
God has already defined for humanity what is natural and unnatural. Unnatural isn’t sustainable, does not serve any purpose that God recognizes, and is an infringement on God’s rights as the author of creation. We have what we call intellectual property rights and other rights over what we create, but we do not acknowledge God’s rights over the things he has created and that is the bastion of sin. Job sat at length talking with God and God rightfully asked him where he was when he (God) was setting the Universe in its order and the stars in the heavens.
Job was relating to God as a peer and was functioning off of the limited and skewed traditions he inherited about God and how he was similar to all other Gods. Namely that when a man makes all of the right sacrifices, God will contractually meet all of man’s needs. Job had received misinformation about God, which caused Job to question God’s ability to keep his own laws, as well as Job, was keeping them which was, of course, a wrong notion on Jobs part.
God illustrated through his conversation with Job that his laws for maintaining the Universe where unimaginably intricate, impressive and could not be duplicated by humans. The same wisdom that placed the Pleiades stars in their orbits is the same wisdom that placed man and woman in their natural spheres.
When God’s world satisfies our needs like crops growing, or light in the day and darkness at night we do not question its place in existence, we are very supportive of God’s way of doing things. Can you name any protests against clean air, drinkable water or the best natural fruit you have ever tasted? Or how much we wish God would rethink babies or pesky gravity, or who gets to decide our planets rotational orbit and why it is not a few degrees closer to the sun? But when we want something that God has objected to we are quick to attack God’s natural laws when we desire things God deems forbidden. If this makes sense to you than you understand that when Adam stole from God and then scapegoated his wife, and recriminated God for his own actions, why God treated the matter so seriously. Prior to Adam and Eve, there was nothing in his creation that existed outside of the natural laws that established them.
We were born with a perverse set of morals and are subject to depraved thinking, even the best of us was not clean enough to stand before God without the ransom sacrifice.
It is our problem as a species to interpret right or wrong not as absolutes that are in harmony with laws of nature, but of the actions of free moral agents that are not really beholden to anything except our own wisdom. But what is human wisdom? We are on this earth for such a fleeting period of time, we are a race of people who if not for God’s mercy would not even be aware of our moral stench in the presence of God. While he loves us, he does not love some of the things that we do, and this is where many humans abandon God.
It was perfectly encapsulated in the scriptures that you provided in your comment because it illustrates that God does not involve himself past certain points when it is clear that someone wants to go in a sinful direction that they are choosing. We know from scripture that God disciplines those he views as sons, a condition not afforded to every human as the scriptures are clear. When he withholds discipline the ruin of the individual is the final result. God refusing to interfere with your life and abandoning you to your own direction is a punishment as he no longer views you as someone he wants to put effort into rehabilitating because it is no longer possible.
We have to be especially careful during the times we are living in as we will be confronted with what seems like credible reasons to reject God’s wisdom in favor of growing emphasis on man’s wisdom. We do not want to frustrate God to a point where he chooses to acknowledge the place we have assigned him as not being an authority for what absolute truth is, and abandons us with our delusional….truth!
Rene, thank you so much for this insight! I never knew that so many were practicing homosexuality until it became very open. I know the men of renown or fame in Noah’s day were like our idols. Even our movies reflect the hybrid creatures, pixies, demonic humanoids, etc. If you speak out your company or job is on the line, so much like the days of Noah. This is another scripture that indicates maybe but I am not quite sure yet that Jehovah might have acted before. He has been more than fair and patient. We can’t understand redemption unless you understand Ruth and Boaz (Ruth 3:1-8) Jesus is the next of kin. Both he and Adam are sons of God. Jesus created all the other beings. They are not Adam’s brothers.
Jeremiah 4:22-27 then back to Israel in verse 28 onward. Tell me what you see here. When did this happen? It is not the flood for His people do know about that. Interesting.
22 “My people are fools;
they do not know me.
They are senseless children;
they have no understanding.
They are skilled in doing evil;
they know not how to do good.”
23 I looked at the earth,
and it was formless and empty;
and at the heavens,
and their light was gone.
24 I looked at the mountains,
and they were quaking;
all the hills were swaying.
25 I looked, and there were no people;
every bird in the sky had flown away.
26 I looked, and the fruitful land was a desert;
all its towns lay in ruins
before the Lord, before his fierce anger.
27 This is what the Lord says:
“The whole land will be ruined,
though I will not destroy it completely.
28 Therefore the earth will mourn
and the heavens above grow dark,
because I have spoken and will not relent,
I have decided and will not turn back.”
We stand in awe of such a God and the God Jesus also (John 1:1) who is not a mere archangel like Michael (Who is great and powerful but not our Lord). If same sex is allowed to continue procreation would stop.
Hi Marjo,
I was not able to comment this week very much on the site due to an ongoing health problem, but I still read some of the posts and your post really caught my attention. Toward the end of your post you mentioned that there is a reinterpretation of gender and sexuality that had not existed in your country a few decades ago. It probably wouldn’t surprise you that in one of my classes, we had to discuss gender and sexuality and how you can be chromosomal male or female but operate as an opposite gender. We had a good back and forth discussion with my classmates on the subject and what was very interesting about it was the lack of consensus. If we were having this discussion 10 years ago, no one would have argued that there are two biological genders, and anything else is more of a social construct. I say social construct because of examples like the fa\’afafine in Samoan culture. These are men who are raised to behave like women and are treated as women when they take male mates and are an important part of Samoan culture. This is called a third gender in gender studies because it does not neatly fall into one category but is an amalgamation of both. Fa\’afafine also believe they are more capable than women and in many ways’ superior to them and do not regard themselves as homosexual at all and neither does the community.
I was asked in my assignment questions about sexual orientation and I read a lot of studies some concluding that gender is a social myth while other researchers concluded that it is an absolute inherent condition based on specific gene expression in the womb. I split the difference by telling my professor that I can’t comment on what sexual orientation means if it is dependent on a fixed interpretation of gender and we are arguing (in the scientific community) about the legitimacy of the concept of gender.
While this social paradox that is happening is alarming for some of us, others are quick to call this an example of social progress. I am finding that all of our “new” ways of thinking may not be as new and novel as we might like to believe.
Camille Paglia a professor and author said in her book Sexual Personae \”And I found in my study that history is cyclic, and everywhere in the world you find this pattern in ancient times: that as a culture begins to decline, you have an efflorescence of transgender phenomena. That is a symptom of cultural collapse. Camille Paglia on Sexual Personae: Art and Decadence from Nefertiti to Emily Dickinson
What is happening is not only not new but follows a predictable pattern which was most potent in the time Jesus referred to as “The Days of Noah” which would be revisited before his second coming. Understanding this concept is critical for any Christian to navigate the predictable decline of the world foretold prophetically in the time of the end. During the days of Noah there occurred a fundamental deviation of natural law so extensive that God literally was forced to end the world and restart it again.
I had to let that concept sink in when I first read it! Satan had so thoroughly contaminated the natural existence of humanity that the God of infinite wisdom concluded that the “BEST” course of action was to euthanize what use to be his perfectly created world and its inhabitants.
Scholars and commentators throughout history have criticized God for what they considered to be an example of God’s jealous and capricious nature as man began to outgrow him through self-determination and self-will. God, however, might have been motivated by the need to intervene on behalf of the many untold victims that this falsely enlightened world had created. The measure of any society from Gods perspective has always rested on how the least of its members are treated (Isaiah 10:2). So what do we know about Noah’s time, and are God’s critics correct?
During Noah’s time, Satan was hard at work with his experimentation in bio-engineering. Although he didn’t have to use test tubes and gene splicing, the results where that he managed to engineer a different type of creature that was no longer human in any natural or spiritual sense. Satan enlisted the use of Angels who are not a species that is in any way physically compatible with humanity. These where the first to alter themselves outside of the natural boundaries God created for them, they took a form like “BUT” not authentically human and began replicating themselves with an entirely different species (human females). They are the first trans species in recorded history, not a product of nature, nor a reinterpretation of natural law but a persistent attack on the norms and values that God instituted in the founding of the world. What followed was a dark exploration of other unorthodox and unnatural states of existence that resulted in the inevitable harm of creation when it believes it has the power and right to redefine what God has placed into existence. (Deuteronomy 32:39).
There is a great deal of evidence in spiritual myths that certain Gods took male and female forms and copulated with humans of the same and opposite sex and with animals and some of these myths are expressly pre-diluvian (or pre-flood). One such text is The Enuma Elish (also known as The Seven Tablets of Creation) is the Mesopotamian creation myth.
In other myths, the God’s where expressly called hybrid (born of man and God), many of them where violent, insolent, did not respect the rights of men and the sanctity of their marriages, had sex with animals, unwilling females, unwilling males, and anyone else that seemed viable.
The rights of humans where all but nonexistent during the time of Noah, the hybrid people where expressly labeled as bullies and victimizers and their spirit creature fathers did not seem to mind this behavior at all. The angels who existed during creation and who had existed countless Millennia with God no longer seemed to respect any of the things they learned from God. They no longer wanted to see humanity restored to equality with spirit creatures and their rights and privileges restored as perfect human creations in the divine family. They were now under the direction of a malevolent spirit creature and where now actively working against Gods plan to restore humanity.
In this terrifying new world that Noah existed in, it was not safe to resist the unclean Angels or their violent children that they enabled. You were not free to worship God or hope for the promises that God predicted for humanity. A man could not keep his children, wife, personal property or possibly even himself safe from the supernatural predators that roamed the earth freely and without consequence. Humans began to adopt these behaviors and victimized one another, and there was no one to protect or defend the innocent.
What should be noted about all of this is that the underlying goal was to keep humanity in a system of perpetual sin/subservience to Satan and those he gave authority to. God and the Messiah where a direct and intolerable threat to Satan and the counterfeit kingdom he founded based on the ruination of humanity 1 Corinthians 2:6. If we look to scripture, some of the tactics that Satan used to subvert the birth of the Messiah was to introduce sexual sin as often as he could to the people of Israel to interrupt God’s plans for the Nation (Numbers 25:1-16). This latter included female and then male temple prostitution (something not even the pagans practiced), fornication with Pagan women, and all manner of adultery which if it had succeeded would have blurred the lineage of the Messiah and possibly invalidated his claim as redeemer if he parentage couldn’t be verified.
One of the most problematic aspects of redefining gender and sexuality is that it is inherently in opposition to the mechanisms God chose to use to correct the plight of sinful humanity. God in the garden specifically stated that the woman would be used to create another “son of man” equal in likeness to the first son of man, Adam. If we accept the new interpretations of gender as naturally occurring as is the emerging claim, I find it difficult to imagine that the Messiah could have been produced in an environment that exclusively relies on male/female human reproduction if God intentionally created additional genders.
Jesus was to serve as a kinsman redeemer for all of Adam’s cursed progeny and the world itself. If you understand anything about Jewish law you know that a kinsman redeemer had to be a blood relative of the deceased man, and that a redeemer could legally buy back all of the dead man’s possessions including land, property, his wife and produce children in the dead relative’s stead (Deuteronomy 25:5-10). This principal is central to understanding why Jesus had to be authentically human for this legal transaction for humanity to be recognized as legal, and why God resorted such drastic measures in protecting the only means of saving humanity Psalm 68:5-6. Anything less than legal would give room for Satan to object (Zechariah 3:1). Satan for the record aside from instigating slander has not been able to credibly refute Jesus claims over the world, humanity, and everything else that God has allowed him to legally take possession of (Revelation 5:2).
Another thing to remember about Satan and his methods of operation is that he can only copy what is in creation, he cannot himself create Daniel 7:25. We see the results of Satan’s system when we see things in our environment that operate on principals of nature but produce unnatural results (2 Corinthians 11:13-15). God’s system has natural limitations, operates consistently, is sustainable, and is predictable in its functions. So, when I weigh the merits of trans gender-ism, trans-species, homosexuality, it should be weighed against other natural truths if it is being presented to us as such. As most homosexuals and trans-gendered people will agree, that they are not capable of replicating themselves naturally.
It wouldn’t be reasonable for anyone to tell us that something is natural, should be accepted as natural, and placed on equal legitimacy as all other things that are natural without being able to show where it has the same fundamental attributes of the naturally occurring.
Quick warning for people that live in the California. You should prepare yourself and leave to safe area where is no quakes. You know what will happen in a place like that when there is millions of people trying to leave from the town when disaster strikes. It is easier to leave now when roads are not blocked by thousands of cars trying to leave from the area. Be wise and leave now. Coast is not safe either, because there could be tsunami coming too if quakes hit bigger.
I live in a small town where lives 9000 people in it. Here is 2 religions that has taken over this town. Many evenings I’ve seen young people in the town with their cars messing around the places. I think atmosphere has changed, I could be wrong tho, but the feeling to move out of this town is stronger than a year ago. It is difficult to have a job in this small town, when there is more available in a bigger town. I have been praying answers from God too for this situation what is the best thing to do. He will answer in His own time. My mother will retire in a next year, so she is free to leave from this town too.
Gay parade is over, it was only celebrated in Helsinki not in my home town. It is interesting how time has changed. In my country it was illegal to be a gay in 1970’s now they don’t have to be in a hide anymore. It is scary to think how teaching in the school will change because of this. There is no more just man and female there will be more female and female, man and man.
Marjo, that is a small town. Some times there is an air about an area. In the Bible, we see that it addresses whole cities being a certain way.
Also, this was an interesting scripture that a minister said he just realized, that this is a punishment of God giving up. Read it and see what you think.
Romans 1:22-30 22Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
24Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
Have you ever had the feeling in a town where you live that you don’t belong there or you are not wanted there? Me and my husband have this feeling. Its like where ever you go people of this town are looking angry when they are watching you.
Then Im like… What did I do wrong? I am just doing my shopping. When we are in this town it feels like here is strange pressure all over. When you go out of the city problem is gone. No more pressure feeling at all. When you return same feeling comes back again.
Im not sure but I have the feeling that everything is not right in this town. Someone could be playing spiritism or even black magic. Ive seen satanic logos young people have painted around the town. Here is something powerfull that doesnt want us here.
Hi Marjo, hmm, that is strange. Is your town a very small town where everybody knows each other? Also if there have been incidences of severe crime where people had to take sides or a political issue, it could be reflected in your community.
Here it is the assumption that certain races favor our current president and another race hates them, so when in a predominant one racial community you might feel that in the United States.
So could that be it maybe?
Also, has it calmed down now after the gay parade is over? We don’t have it in your face now since that day is over.
In this video this man explains very well why Jehovah Witness who was born in can’t just leave. When they find out that the religion they have been in is not the truth.
https://youtu.be/xf9q0po25KY
Marjo, we were discussing this on testimony meeting one night. I divided it into born prior to 1965 and born in after that. The governing body formed and by 1995 it had become a tyrant rent of authoritative men.
I was in during the 1940 so my childhood within was governed strictly by my parents. You began courting at 16 like everybody in America at that time. No man would dare tell another male how to run his household.
There is a plan by the devil to effeminize men and to break up the family by saying a governing body supersedes him.
Anyone growing up under that or coming in young under that rule from the 1970s onward finds it hard to leave. If I wasn’t on the website I could go months probably without thinking about them. I focus to help others that are struggling. Out little core group has 1500 other people reading and clicking on links from 256 cities all over the world. I should put it at the bottom of the page also.
I have to buy new headphones with microphone or just normal table microphone so I could coe to the meeting. My little one got the other ones and broke the microphone from it lol. I also have inner microphone on my laptop but don’t know how to use it. I have to figure that out.
Now we were able to get radiophone, which is handy if hackers shut the power off or emp happens or sunstorm. You never know what happens in this world. I suggest others to have one too.