Revelation chapters 8, 20 & 21 & 16




Prophecy and Humility part 9, The 4 Seiges on Jerusalem: by Bob Carnegie, L.A. Bible Students. (Rev. 20:8-9)


Revelation 21: 1-5, mentions  "new heaven and a new earth'. Now I see it differently than ever before. Just this one part puzzled me because of other places where I saw this. Now I know to go back in the Bible to see if you find something to understand what it means in Revelation. (First Mention)

A New Heaven and a New Earth

Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[fn] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[fn] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

I will enter what I found in the comment section below. What did your rereading of the Bible reveal?

37 Responses to Revelation chapters 8, 20 & 21 & 16

  1. jacqueline says:

    Revelation 8: 8,9

    8 “The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood,”

    9 “a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.”

    This would be understood if now this happened because the ships are all stuck in the seaports with Goods on them.
    There have never been this many ships with goods stuck. This would be disaster.

  2. jacqueline says:

    We were discussing recently that Rev. 17 & 18 seemed to depict different aspects of Babylon the Great, not just religion, but Commerce in some way.

    This is an interesting discussion, food for thought. Enjoy

  3. Jacqueline says:

    This is a very easy-to-understand explanation of Daniel’s 11th and 12th Chapters.
    Chuck Smith Daniel 11 & 12. Enjoy

  4. jacqueline says:

    Did John see all of this. If so I see why he fell to his knees!
    Most people are not aware of 2 Hiroshimas since 1950!

    Horrible and might explain our cancers and in children born in subsequent generations. Man is a horrible beast when ruling each other.

  5. Lee Anthony says:

    The pope is involving himself with the enemies of Israel, they don’t Think the land should be theirs nor do they believe Jerusalem should change by being given to Israel fully. Interesting since the empires of Rome and Ottoman fought long and hard over Jerusalem, Constantinople was taken n the East and remains in Muslim control and Jerusalem was taken and in part remains in Muslim control. Both the remnants of Rome and Ottomans are playing the field in our day, Babylon and Israel are involved too. The 8th and final beast is on the rise and the 10 kings that will give their power to him are likely now among us and gaining momentum. We all have our views on how this will play out, Let’s watch and see how prophecy is fulfilled, I know like always it will be precise.

  6. jacqueline says:

    This is a dangerous alliance forming! People aren’t noticing it.
    The Papacy seems to be alive again and this beast has not changed it colors.
    Christians are aware of how Papacy behaves. They wore out the Saints! Now they have reared their ugly head again!

    Rev 16:12-17
    12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. 13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.

    15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

    16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

  7. jacqueline says:

    Israel held a meeting to discuss earthquakes and their preparedness so I looked up info on earthquakes and Jehovah here.

    They spoke of 7000 people being killed so they were talking about being prepared. You can listen to their discussion here:

  8. jacqueline says:

    This video sort of depicts what I think I see in Revelation.
    Chapter 9, I think the things that look like scorpions are helicopters with men faces in the cockpit. John never saw napalm bombs, nor our sea vessels that arise out of the sea.
    But look at some of the pictures this video shows. The army men in suits doing warfare looks like what John is seeing.

    I believe John saw our modern warfare of amphibian vehicles with torpedoes. Germ warfare suits on soldiers as they climb up walls and come out of the water like the Navy seals.
    Because they have on our warfare clothing they look horrifying.

    When we look at this from a century where they still traveled by horse, foot and camel, he would be blown away.

    We might have seen some of this already and are further along in Revelation than we know.

    I see Rev 18, the takedown of society’s commercial system including huge organized religious system and vast eat out, gyms, big-box businesses, and entertainment theaters etc.

    I could be wrong about all of this, but I can see how people will be caught off guard because they are expecting literal spirit creatures and monsters. We can’t see demons unless they cloth themselves.

    Many love the rapture before this when really they are living through it like everybody else.
    WW1 onward was dreadful for us let alone poor John to see this strange warfare.

    Just thinking out loud. Vietnam was the worse chemical warfare plus Cambodia and the korean war. They outlawed Napalm after that. It burns you but you want to die but can’t.

  9. Lee Anthony says:

    I do agree that this prophecy is about Israel, but a reading starting at 12:1 is leaving out quite a bit of supplemental information as 11-12 read together tell The history and it takes us to a point in (11:45) that shows this ruler setting his tent in Israel.

    Perhaps it isn’t what Yeshua was speaking of, but one key thing for me is that it says a time trouble such as never was, Jerimiah 30:7) Matt 24:21) speak in the same language and The timeline in Daniel seems to indicate a time after Israel has already been regathered which is after the holocaust.

  10. jacqueline says:

    I was thinking about Rev 13: 11-13. Some features remind me of how around 1926 the Papacy was given back power by the United States after losing it in 1799.
    Point 2. The United States called down fire from Heaven with the A-bomb on Nagasaki. The entire world stood in awe and shock. The United States became THE SUPERPOWER!
    Everybody and Nation wanted to be a part of the United States. There are those who know that this lamb isn’t what it appeared to be. In the previous verses (5-) I think that the first beast was Papacy because it persecuted the Saints. Just looking at this with clear eyes according to what I lived through and saw as a child happen. I saw the stories about ww2 and the liberation of the Jews and the A-Bomb. Our Tv wasn’t like it is now with everything on it. It carried more history. Just thinking out loud

    11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people.

    • jacqueline says:

      Also, I found this on what the mark in the forehead and hand was in times past. It lends credence to Papacy fulfilling at least at one time Rev 13: 11-.

      “Other offices the false prophet performs to the beast in subjecting all sorts of people to his obedience, by imposing certain terms of communion, and excommunicating all who dare in the least article to dissent from him. He causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, of whatsoever rank and condition they be, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads — We must remember, that it was customary among the ancients for servants to receive the mark of their master, and soldiers of their general, and those who were devoted to any particular deity, of the particular deity to whom they were devoted. These marks were usually impressed on their right hand, or on their foreheads; and consisted of some hieroglyphic characters, or of the name expressed in vulgar letters, or of the name disguised in numerical letters, according to the fancy of the imposer. It is in allusion to this ancient practice and custom, that the symbol and profession of faith in the Church of Rome, as subserving superstition, idolatry, and tyranny, is called the mark or character of the beast; which character is said to be received in their forehead when they make an open profession of their faith, and in their right hand when they live and act in conformity to it. If any dissent from the stated and authorized forms, they are condemned and excommunicated as heretics; and in consequence of that they are no longer suffered to buy or sell — They are interdicted from traffic and commerce, and all the benefits of civil society. Thus Hovedon relates, that William the Conqueror would not permit any one in his power to buy or sell any thing, whom he found disobedient to the apostolic see. So the canon of the council of Lateran, under Pope Alexander the Third, made against the Waldenses and Albigenses, enjoins, upon pain of anathema, that “no one presume to entertain or cherish them in his house or land, or exercise traffic with them.” The synod of Tours, in France, under the same pope, ordered, under the like intermination, that “no man should presume to receive or assist them, no, not so much as to hold any communion with them in selling or buying, that, being deprived of the comfort of humanity, they may be compelled to repent of the error of their way.” So did Pope Martin V. in his bull after the council of Constance. In this respect the false prophet spake as the dragon: for the dragon Dioclesian published a like edict, that no one should sell or administer any thing to the Christians, unless they had first burned incense to the gods. Popish ex-communications are therefore like heathen persecutions, and how large a share the corrupted clergy, and especially the monks of former, and the Jesuits of later times, have had in framing and enforcing such cruel interdicts, and in reducing all orders and degrees to so servile a state of subjection, no man of the least reading can want to be informed.”

  11. jacqueline says:

    What do you think, Ted or Lee Anthony about Daniel 12: 1 is talking about the holocaust? This isn’t the same as the great tribulation. Michael stands up for them in a very bad situation.
    Jesus comes after the great tribulation to save and He sits down to rule.
    Michael has to deliver the Jews by sending in the nations to stop Germany from completely wiping out Israel. Michael engaging in fighting for Israel. That war had to be turned and maybe this is what Michael did.
    Btw, I don’t believe that Michael is our Lord Jesus. Jesus only comes to rescue the Jews once at the end of the age at Megiddo.

    • Lee Anthony says:

      My view on This time of trouble is that it is still future, something worse, not just for Israel but for all the world, though worse for Israel and for those who are part of Israel and stand with Israel, at this point only followers of Messiah who are being persecuted as well. My take on this is that this is the time that begins after the abomination of desolation is set up, when Yeshua said when you see it flee. Reading Daniel 11 going into 12 gives me a different perspective since It don’t seem as if there should be a chapter break.

      I think that Hitler, like Assyria, Babylon, etc. was just another part of the curse of the law that YHVH said would come upon Israel when they disobeyed. (Deuteronomy 28:15-68) The 1st part of Deut 28 speaks of the blessings the 2nd part here the curse of the law. This is of course something many misunderstand in the NT If they don’t study the OT, most think the law itself is a curse of course YHVH wants to bless his people not curse them.

      The end of the captivity seems to always come with a king or nation helping Israel to be free and aiding them in gathering to Israel. Most notably Cyrus the great and also the balfour declaration in out time. The patterns and also the prophecies indicate Israel will again be taken and trampled underfoot. I personally feel that Islam will play a big role in this, the descendants of Abraham and Issac are still fighting over the blessings of the 1stborn, Ishmael and Esau we’re both overlooked and to this day it is still a problem.

      • jacqueline says:

        Lee Anthony, I was speaking with Henry and asked him to read carefully Daniel 12:1. It isn’t talking I don’t think about the time of trouble in the future. Jesus rescues during that time.

        This appears to be a special time when Michael the Arc angel “stands up” for Israel for some reason.
        I don’t see the phrase as being exactly what Jesus said about our future great time of trouble, the words are not the same. This to me appears to be some great trouble that hit the Jews and Michael stood up.

        Many have said God has to have predicted the Holocaust! I think He did right here. I could be wrong but some others are looking at this differently now since it is apparent to all Christians that the Church, did not replace Israel. I might be wrong but this looks like the holocaust to me. Just a thought.

    • Ted R says:

      I agree with Lee Anthony. Since the fall of Adam there have been two seeds at war. The seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent. Throughout Biblical History the Seed of the Serpent has been trying to thwart Gods purpose and prevent Gods Seed from prevailing. He corrupted mankind by having his fellow rebels create the Nephilim through there illicit relations with humans resulting in the flood, he tried to have David killed, He tried to corrupt Jesus with his temptations, Roman persecution, the killing of the babies after the birth of Christ. When prophecy began to be fulfilled and the dry bones of Gods people began to have flesh, he tried to stop it by the antisemitism of the holocaust and the antisemitic movement that still exists, even among some Christian factions and even now thousands of Christians are being matyred for the name of Christ . The following video series helps us to understand who the anti-Christ is and the final timeline that leads to the return of the Messiah. Interesting information.
      The Final Timeline – Part 1 \”The 3 1/2 year Tribulation and the Seals

      • jacqueline says:

        TedR, I have listened to their whole series, I think I posted it on the websites to visit page as well as in comments last week. This is a “lost tribe” Jewish group and they visit all over the world to talk where the DNA seems to have awakened in them to seek the Torah.
        They have an entire list of great explanations of a Jewish view.

  12. Lee Anthony says:

    Helicopters sounds very likely, but it seems to be a possible technology we have yet to see ourselves, I only say this because it states .. Rev 9:5  The locusts were not allowed to kill them, only to inflict pain on them for five months; and the pain they caused was like the pain of a scorpion sting.
    Rev 9:6  In those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.
    so chemical warfare?
    It’s not bombs and guns using bullets and exploding, those would kill people for sure…

    • jacqueline says:

      The Napalm and agent orange burned the skin in the Vietnam war but it didn’t kill you.
      Did you notice Lee that it said not to harm the trees and the grass? That is what the helicopters actually did in Vietnam cleared the foliage all the green grass. He said don’t do it this time.
      I agree this probably is chemical warfare for helicopters have the sting or opening in the tail.
      The smoke on each side looks like a female’s long hair.
      Look at the link posted. It looks like the abyss behind the people.
      So we would know what John was talking about because we know he was describing possibly a helicopter. Now when we see a mass event like this coming from the east using chemical warfare, we can mark where we are in the stream of time.
      So now I wonder about the time, it says five months, and Revelation’s numbers seem to be exactly that and not in symbols.
      Tonight was enriching with out two visitors for the first time. Nice having new voices.

  13. jacqueline says:

    In Revelation John wrote and described what he saw. Locusts coming out of the Abyss, for instance, describes helicopters exactly! the face of a man could be the men in the metal body and the stinging tails where the bombs drop from, the hair like a woman can be the smoke, the noise the propellers, etc. But they are empowered by demons that have been released who were imprisoned.

    This Jewish group I have a very interesting explanation of what John say since he never saw a gun or missiles etc. If you hold an automatic weapon up to your helmeted head it looks like fire came out of the mouth.
    Part 1
    Part 2
    Part 3

  14. jacqueline says:

    This is happening now. While we are dealing with the virus this is happening.

  15. jacqueline says:

    Well because of the many events happening, I personally am looking for a few things.

    A 2 headed beast, maybe a Jew and a Gentile. He shoots off his mouth and blasphemes God.
    He will be given the power to rule by the dragon. He will get an eye and a head womb that might put him on life support for 3 days but He will come back and the world shall marvel at him.
    The other beast will look like a Lamb but acts and speaks as a dragon, he is the false prophet and he may be a Jew.

    I am just thinking out loud and looking to see where we might be in the time of the end.

    The earth seems to be on fire. Now if a meteorite falls in the “Sea” and fish die, blood fills this sea and 1/3 of the ships are destroyed then we can sort of see where we are, to me.

    Covid-19 seems to make governments realize there are powers greater than them, even Arab countries.

    The fast-moving events in the Middle East bear watching.

    Signs and wonders will deceive many and they will worship the dragon that gives these entities their power.

    These are just things I am personally gleaning as I study Revelation.

    Those that refuse to worship this beast will be killed. but not all.
    Hopefully, our secular Jews don’t think Christ is one of these men that are brokering these peace talks because they probably will tell them to build their temple now, maybe.

    These are interesting times.

  16. jacqueline says:

    We are studying this section of Revelation and I like the added comments on seeing the living creatures etc.
    I believe in God coming down and Christ temple being in our atmosphere but can’t rule out going to heaven in the eons to come. Revelation 20-22 to the ages to come.

    This is an interesting summation of 2Thessalonians 3:1-8

  17. jacqueline says:

    Every day it becomes clearer why Jesus said not to add or take away from Revelation. If I allegorize (add to) Revelation I can’t understand it but it is clearer if I obey Jesus and accept that he is intelligent and means exactly what he says. Who would have thought, a virus could shut down the churches and the world governments. More unbelievable things are foretold in Revelation.
    20:1 some say this angel has to be Jesus because only Jesus is strong enough to bind satan.
    First Jesus isn’t an angel and was borne of Jehovah God in the beginning and he created the angels. Never was one himself., he simply seizes him and binds him.
    This angel isn’t said to be as strong as some are. There isn’t even a fight or struggle mentioned
    This is like the judge say Ballif take the prisoner in custody. The prisoner is told to put his hands behind his back and cuffs are put on, he has been sentenced by the judge to a certain amount of time.

    So it is the JUDGE that is strong and has the power to speak the sentence on the crook, not the bailiff being stronger.

    Jehovah SAID satan would be bound “until the thousand years were ended.” He knows he can’t fight Jehovah.
    It has nothing to do with the strength of the angel. There is no fight.

    Disrespect for who Jesus actually is, God, not Jehovah GOD, his father, but if my son is human by birth then Jesus is a God by reason of being birthed by a GOD. John 1:1

    We understand begotten, as meaning a birth but when it comes to Jehovah and Jesus we tend to get off track. Only begottoned of GOD.

  18. jacqueline says:

    I was just thinking, if any one on this site went into a restaurant and were given a menu. Would yo think each item meant something else. No we would read It normally and accept what it says the dish is. A street sign, a textbook, a map. Revelation and the Bible is understood if we read it normally like the apostles and the Torah readers. Jesus tells you when he is speaking in parables.
    John described what he saw. He said things like hair like a woman but not a woman. A face that looked like a man, as if, etc. Today we can better understand revelation if we don’t allegorize it like we were taught. The book says we will be blessed if we read it, it is easier for me if I accept God says what he means and means what he says.
    Wow, He tells us exactly the order of events so those reading will know what is happening. We lift our heads up and warn our family also..Seven events happening together should be easy to know when the countdown has begun to his second coming. He hasn’t come invisibly in Heaven as we we taught. That was made up to cover for the failed prophecy of Russell’s 1914 predictions.

  19. jacqueline says:

    I found this explanation on Chapter 16 about the bowls being poured out.

    It is a chapter that is almost scary because it is the wrath of God.
    But he brought out a point I never really thought about. After every plague man never repented, they curse God instead of repenting and complying.
    Now I look at Revelation in a new light.

    When I post these gems I find on youtube, I am not saying every thought is true but there are jewels from listening to many men of faith as they go verse by verse rather than doctrine by doctrine.
    I hope it adds to knowledge.

  20. jacqueline says:

    The order of Events according to some Ministers. This is just for reference, I am not saying yea or nay. But if you get on these pages in youtube it will bring up others and we as individuals can choose which ones to look at. Chuck Missler Last days detectives

  21. jacqueline says:

    That the scriptures might be fulfilled.
    Every Old Testament scripture about Jesus was literally fulfilled. Abraham was a literal man. Mary was literally a virgin, not a spiritual virgin.
    A man says I am married. Would we ever ask are you literally married.

    Yet we have been taught to allegorize the Bible not take it for what it actually says. We say oh that means a spiritual Jew when Revelation says 144,000 are Jews from actual tribes and how many. Yet we have all types of races claiming to be of the 144,000. Some say the number is literal but the fact that he says Jewish is a spiritual Jew and they pull out a bunch of scriptures not dealing with The 144,000.
    Jesus said heaven and earth will pass away and everybody says he doesn’t mean what he says. And then we look all through the Bible that there will be a new heaven and a new earth and in it righteousness is to dwell.
    The earth abideth forever scripture is used to prove all of the other scriptures in the bible wrong that shows that this earth will be gone and another will take its place and it is called earth also.
    I am coming to the conclusion that Jehovah, Jesus, and the Bible says what it really means and means what it really says no matter how distressing some of the words are to us.
    Many instances those to be delivered are told to go get your relatives and bring them within the house and all in there will be saved. I Egypt all in the house under the blood marched out in the exodus.

  22. Lee Anthony says:

    I know who this guy is. John Macarthur, he is an author with lotta books, bible commentary, study bibles and so on… Lotta interesting stuff, big ministry.

  23. jacqueline says:

    This video from 1993 is so informative. You would think He was writing right now.
    The new one posted is on Revelation 8

  24. Rene says:


    Satan and Jesus are nowhere near on equal footing. We do not even know what rank that Satan had prior to being appointed, but we do know that all of the Angels in heaven were under the authority of Jesus Christ then and to a greater degree now. It is not surprising that the ruler of this system has kept the nature of Jesus authority a mystery to the rest of us.

    It is though a great comfort to know that when God’s plan of salvation is fully realized that we will have our grand and glorious king who is righteous and will rule in righteousness. It is evident that this has not occurred yet as Jesus would not tolerate any measure of injustice. So much of what I was taught about Jesus and where we are in prophecy was lacking in biblical accuracy and has lead others to hope for things that are in no way going to occur before the advent of other prophetic fulfillment.

    Knowing how to apply God’s law to prophetic fulfillment is important in matching current events to scripture. What I was taught was so far off base that it would be like expecting a harvest in the Winter time. Time and season play an important role in understanding God’s timeline and without understanding the past, making future predictions isn’t prudent or reliable.

    • jacqueline says:

      Rene, I agree with you that we never knew that Israel was even a part of God’s plan for man. So to follow the actual words in Revelation makes it very plain and clear. It is only when I allegorize the text that it makes no sense. To Understand that Jesus will sit on the throne of David here on earth id wonderful. It means God’s word came true. Now the Apostles will sit on twelve thrones and they were told they wouldn’t finish going through the cities of Israel until Christ returned. Now it makes sense that they will rule beside him on Earth or in Israel and finish going through the cities of Israel and bring them to Christ. So that all of Israel shall be saved.

      Matt.10:23“But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.”

      Rom.11:26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, “THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.”

      Revelation is unveiling slowly too so many Christians.

  25. Rene says:

    Thank you Jacqueline and our prayers are with you today 🙂

    • jacqueline says:

      Rene, you know some think of Jesus as Michael and just a mere angel but the text actually says just a regular angel seized the devil and abysses him. We were taught that satan is powerful and he is more than us but if we have Jesus he can’t dwell where the Spirit dwells within us. We never were taught the power of Jesus as regard satan. I like to set aside this day for deep study because there is so much on during Sunday.

  26. jacqueline says:

    This is a video the I find is following the text of the Bible pretty closely.
    Rene, you and I are texting back and forth so here is the link I am listening to. Enjoy!

  27. jacqueline says:

    After listening to this discourse I feel encouraged and look forward to the future.
    This isn’t something for Christians to fear but look forward too.
    Rev, 16:17-21

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