Many visiting this site have been Jehovah witnesses, Scientologist, Bible Students or one of the denominations based on the writings or beliefs of one man or set of men.
How can we avoid these pitfalls again, now that we have managed to get free? One major scripture was misquoted to all Jehovah witnesses for a century: "Who versus Whom"
67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.
68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”
A well balanced view of 1 Corinthians 5 regarding Church discipline from Dallas Theological Seminary
https://youtu.be/QPWNc0e0sc0
No where are we told to completely shun individuals in Scripture! So what is the Scripture discussing? When should Church Discipline be instituted? How?
Good information!
Do you serve God or Men? How do you know if you are in a cult? Our Brother and Sister Aspinall present some good Biblical information from our beloved Apostle Paul in this series
https://youtu.be/v7Rp4S3ND4g
https://youtu.be/OyQPdxKy69A
https://youtu.be/4Y6zz60ymX8 I especially like this one!
Brother Chuck Missler provides interesting insights into the letters of Thessalonians!
A discussion of the Rapture (Espazo; greek)
The second coming and the difference between the first resurrection and the visible return of Christ.
He provides information on Eschatology that should at least be taken into consideration. As the Bereans we examine the Scriptures to verify whether these things are so.
https://youtu.be/qgv9-TN9F38
Why did God curse Canaan and not Ham since it was Ham that sinned? Was the curse racial as some try to profess? This video provides sound Scriptural evidence that answers those questions!
https://youtu.be/h84rRWfY4A8
Noah’s Nakedness, the Sin of Ham, and the Curse of Canaan (Genesis 9:19-29
Ted R, I like to take a stab in the dark before I see the videos. I think Ham actually did something to the wife of Noah. Maybe not his mother as uncovered nakedness has always referred to doing something sexual to a female owned by a man in those days. Maybe a younger wife who knows.
But I think this was a prophecy here on the Canaanites and how they would have a defective gene, perhaps inherited from Ham’s wife, Canaan’s mother.
Only Noah was said to be pure but his sons’ wives might have had tainted DNA from the angelic sons of God messing with the gene pool of men and animals. It normally takes 10 generations for genetic to bleed out a bad gene. So I think it was Jehovah’s way of prophecying why all the women and children also had to be destroyed in Canaan as Nephilim DNA made them giants in Canaan.
Genesis 6:4 says: The Nephilim[b] were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
It says nothing about the color of skin as Canaanites were not black. They were however slaves to their brothers. There are more nations living right now in slavery but they aren’t black.
The curse was on Canaan and it came true. There is no evidence in the Bible of this curse being on others.
God means what he says and says exactly what he means. Men who enslave other people, murder, boil them in oil, and hanged whole families including the children and babies. The men, women, and children that dressed up in their Sunday best to view these families hanged or whipped to death like Jesus with flesh torn off their bodies.
These people try to use this scriptural text to justify their barbaric, demonic behavior.
So would a thinking person say the entire race of the people mentioned above is depraved? Or will they say the ones that had slaves and did those heinous acts only?
Charles Russell says black skin has to turn white to be acceptable to God in the Millenium.
Now, this is my take, I will go look at the video, thanks for posting Ted R.
I am about to write an article about the unrest we see today.
This is a long winded response but it is necessary for the topic to study more than comment, sorry for the length, I am going to watch the video now and see their view.
Leviticus 18:1 – Then YAHWEH spoke to Moses, saying,
2 – “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: `I am YAHWEH your Elohim.
3 – `According to the doings of the land of Egypt, where you dwelt, you shall not do; and according to the doings of the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you, you shall not do; nor shall you walk in their ordinances.
Every nation has ordinances, as I shared. Every nation has laws, which they seek to abide by. And Egypt had theirs. Yahweh tells us not to walk in their ordinances. Instead, He says:
Leviticus 18:4 – `You shall observe My judgments and keep My ordinances, to walk in them: I [am] YAHWEH your Elohim.
5 – `You shall therefore keep My statutes and My judgments, which if a man does, he shall live by them: I [am] YAHWEH..
Leviticus 18:6 – `None of you shall approach anyone who is near of kin to him, to uncover his nakedness: I [am] YAHWEH.
This is sort of like the heading of the next several verses where Yahweh is expressly forbidding incest. And not just incest, but things that lead to incest, which is uncovering nakedness.
Yahweh was the One who chose in the garden of Eden to cover Adam and to cover his wife so that they would be modest. And He expects us, also, to be modest even in and within the family relationships.
The Hebrew word for “near of kin” simply means “flesh of” or “remnant of” his flesh. That is the literal Hebrew meaning there. So those who are of our flesh, the ones who are near of kin, the ones who are our close relatives– He is specifically telling us to keep ourselves covered.
And this would help to prevent inappropriate relationships within the family, to keep ourselves covered while we are at home.
Now there are different families who have different standards regarding modesty– modesty outside the home, modesty inside the home. The way in which we can help to assure that there is nothing inappropriate happening within the family itself is that everybody keeps their body parts private.
Some believe this particular verse is only talking about the actual act of copulation, let’s reason on the Torah principles and the words used here since
Apparently, other people were convinced that is what it meant. For instance, the New International Version has: Leviticus 18:6 – “No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am Yahweh.”
They were so convinced that it was simply an idiom to describe sexual relations that they, in their “dynamic equivalence” translation style, actually translated it “sexual relations.”
But there are other places where you can find this “uncovering of nakedness.” You can find it in Ezekiel.
Ezekiel 16:36 – `Thus says the Master YAHWEH: “Because your filthiness was poured out and your nakedness uncovered in your harlotry with your lovers, and with all your abominable idols, and because of the blood of your children which you gave to them,
We are not going to get into the context here, but what I want to point out is: “nakedness being uncovered in your harlotry.”
Some might suggest, “Well, it is only talking about nakedness being uncovered in the context of harlotry.” And so, they would quote that verse.
Another place:
Ezekiel 23:18 – She revealed her harlotry and uncovered her nakedness. Then I alienated Myself from her, As I had alienated Myself from her sister.
Again, uncovering nakedness and revealing her harlotry. I mean, one does go with the other. And so, it would make sense that they would both be linked together.
But in Leviticus 18, the list of those whose nakedness we are forbidden from uncovering, it does not, for one reason or another, actually say that we are forbidden from uncovering the nakedness of our children.
Now it does forbid a child from uncovering the nakedness of their parents, which certainly means a child cannot marry a parent. But there is no specific prohibition of a parent uncovering the nakedness of their son or their daughter.
And I find that to be a little bit strange if we really believe that the prohibition in Leviticus 18 is simply regarding sexual relations as the New International Version would suggest. Why wouldn’t there be a command that says a woman cannot marry her son (like we know Nimrod, and all that, that went on)? They did that.
So I think that there is more here than just sexual relations, it is also dealing with uncovering nakedness in the literal sense. No idiom here, it is a Torah command that was known before the written Torah.
Now we have to uncover the nakedness of our children in order to attend to their needs to be bathed, perhaps their medical needs, change their diapers, teach them how to use the potty, and things like that.
And so, it would make sense to me why He would not specifically forbid the uncovering of our children. I mean, they are born with no clothes on, right?
So if “uncovering nakedness” was just an idiom for sexual relations, I can’t really think of any reason why Yahweh would not have included our children in the list. But if it is simply meant by what it says, “uncovered nakedness,” to me it would make perfect sense that we need to have the ability to take care of our children.
And, also, there was already a very common way of describing the act of copulation. It is used here in Leviticus 18, verse 20. He says:
Leviticus 18:20 – `Moreover you shall not lie carnally with your neighbor’s wife, to defile yourself with her.
Now why didn’t He use this phrase “lie carnally” all throughout Leviticus 18 if that is all He was talking about? It seems He is talking about, yes, certainly, you cannot lie carnally, but, also, keeping our nakedness covered.
He used different verbiage here and for that reason I think it is just best to take Yahweh at His word. He used different verbiage for a reason. So perhaps He meant something different, or something more, than just the act of copulation here.
I mean, obviously, uncovering nakedness is the first step in copulation. It is impossible to lie carnally with someone without nakedness being involved somehow. So it certainly seems to be an extra step that Yahweh is requiring of us. And it is in the context of a family unit that nakedness is most likely to be a possibility.
So, He is saying, even though we may live together in the same home, keep the private parts of your body private. I think that is what He is after. He wants modesty within the home.
Leviticus 18:6 – `None of you shall approach anyone who is near of kin to him, to uncover his nakedness: I [am] YAHWEH.
7 – `The nakedness of your father or the nakedness of your mother you shall not uncover. She [is] your mother; you shall not uncover her nakedness.
Now could a person uncover their own nakedness? In other words, He is saying, “You shall not uncover her nakedness.” But what if she uncovered her own nakedness?
Now to uncover another person’s nakedness would be an act of aggression. However, it does seem to be wrong to even willfully see (willfully, not accidently, but willfully– we are talking about an aggressive act), to see willfully the nakedness of anyone who is near of kin.
For instance, Leviticus 20, verse 17, says:
Leviticus 20:17 – `If a man takes his sister, his father’s daughter or his mother’s daughter, and sees her nakedness and she sees his nakedness, it [is] a wicked thing. And they shall be cut off in the sight of their people. He has uncovered his sister’s nakedness. He shall bear his guilt.
He says it is a wicked thing.
Now it says “if a man takes his sister.” In other words, he is the aggressor here. Men are usually the aggressor. You only have to look up the rape statistics to find that.
But we see here that it is wickedness, according to Yahweh, for a brother and sister to physically see– just to see– each other’s nakedness. And Yahweh actually says “it is a wicked thing.”
And so, although Yahweh does seem to be speaking directly to males here in Leviticus 18, by the understanding that we are looking at principles here of the Torah, not legalistic statements, the prohibition is certainly for women as well. She sees his nakedness. It is wickedness.
Because we are looking for principles. We are not looking for legal verbiage. That is not what Yahweh’s Law is all about. It is not about legal verbiage. It is about principles.
And we see that is how the Apostles, when they quoted from the Torah, you will notice that they were taking principles, not just legal verbiage like one studies law in American law. Yahweh wants us to walk, not just in the literal, but also in the principle behind it, the meaning behind it.
And we can gain that meaning if we understand Yahweh’s ways and we study His Word and we compare other verses and we realize He is trying to teach us how to love.
And what He is trying to prevent here in family is incest. And the way you prevent incest is you don’t allow there to be situations where people are being tempted. And so, He is basically saying here: “Cover up!”
We will go back to Leviticus chapter 18, verse 6. It says:
Leviticus 18:6 – `None of you shall approach anyone who is near of kin to him, to uncover his nakedness: I [am] YAHWEH.
So Yahweh is going to define for us what this “near of kin” is, or “flesh of his flesh” or “remnant of his flesh,” would be. He says:
Leviticus 18:7 – `The nakedness of your father or the nakedness of your mother you shall not uncover. She [is] your mother; you shall not uncover her nakedness.
8 – `The nakedness of your father’s wife you shall not uncover; it [is] your father’s nakedness.
A husband and wife are one flesh. Yahweh says the nakedness of our father’s wife is our father’s nakedness. So there appears to be more going on here than just the act of copulation. It says, “It is your father’s nakedness,” and so on.
So Yahweh wants us to keep ourselves covered up even in the family setting. Refraining from seeing the nakedness of our parents was Yahweh’s expectation long before He gave the Torah to Israel.
We find in Genesis chapter 9, and verse 20, it says:
Genesis 9:20 – And Noah began [to be] a farmer, and he planted a vineyard.
21 – Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent.
22 – And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside.
It does not say he did anything. It just says he saw the nakedness of his father.
Genesis 9:23 – But Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid [it] on both their shoulders, and went backward and covered the nakedness of their father. Their faces [were] turned away, and they did not see their father’s nakedness.
Now some have suggested what happened here was either a homosexual act or something more than actually what is written. But we only really know what the text says. We are not given any details. So I want to be cautious about going beyond what actually is written.
What I want to point out, though, is that Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on their shoulders, went backward and covered the nakedness of their father. And so, they refused to even look at their father.
Now if the prohibitions in Leviticus 18 were only talking about the act of copulation, I would have to wonder why Shem and Japheth felt the need to walk in backwards (I mean, they are all males, right?) so they did not see their father’s nakedness.
I mean, did they have to walk in backwards to avoid having an act of homosexuality with their father? Of course, not! It says their faces were turned away, and they did not see it.
Now some suggest since Leviticus chapter 18:8 actually says, when we see our father’s wife it is our father’s nakedness, he was actually looking at Noah’s wife, Ham’s mother. I am not sure I buy that. I tend to go with what it is actually saying here.
I mean, there are other places. For instance, Reuben went up on his father’s wife’s bed that actually was more descriptive than just seeing nakedness.
But, otherwise, I mean, why would Shem and Japheth even walk in the tent? Was his wife drunk? It does not even mention his wife being there. Walking in the tent, walking backwards, they did not want to see their father’s nakedness.
My point is, the act here was simply seeing nakedness. It does not say Ham uncovered his father’s nakedness. It just says he saw it, and it was a result of his father becoming uncovered in his tent. Ham saw it, told his brothers about it. We might presume, maybe they could take a look also? They refused to.
Ham’s lineage actually was cursed as a result. Now it is not unusual for the lineage of a man to be cursed as a result of the father’s sin. Yahweh cursed Ahab’s lineage, and He blessed David’s lineage.
And so, Noah here says:
Genesis 9:25 – Then he said: “Cursed [be] Canaan; A servant of servants He shall be to his brethren.”
26 – And he said: “Blessed [be] YAHWEH, The Elohim of Shem, And may Canaan be his servant.
27 – May Elohim enlarge Japheth, And may he dwell in the tents of Shem; And may Canaan be his servant.”
So the curse actually had to do with one being greater than the other. Jacob also said abut Reuben that he would not excel because he went up on his father’s bed.
But we see, as a result of this act, one-third of the human race basically was placed in a position of servitude. Now, biblically, we know a curse cannot fall on the child unless the child does something that would invite that kind of curse.
For instance, Proverbs chapter 26, verse 2, says:
Proverbs 26:2 – Like a flitting sparrow, like a flying swallow, So a curse without cause shall not alight.
That means it will not fall upon them. So we would have to be doing something, if we were a son of Ham, for that curse to take effect.
We see that also in Exodus chapter 20, in verses 5 through 6. Yahweh says:
Exodus 20:5 – you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, YAHWEH your Elohim, [am] a jealous Elohim, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth [generations] of those who hate Me,
Of what? “Of those who hate Me.” So if the generations hate Yahweh like the fathers would have, because they agree with their father and what their father had done and they are doing the same things, then they would also have that curse placed on them. But, it says:
Exodus 20:6 – but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Lee
Lee Anthony, thanks for all the research. I never knew some of the things you mentioned.
I have to agree with your znalog8of exactly what the text says.
God knowing everything about human nature felt what he said was sufficient. I do see Jesus in this as always on every page of the Bible.
The land of the Canaanites was to be given to a nation he created from 2 persons that were dead as regards child bearing. Abraham and Sarah.
So I thi k this is about taking this land for his people.
It makes me wonder how much satan was involved here.
There is still something about that land to this day. It only produces if Abraham’s descendants are there.
The Canaanites were said to be giants growing giant food and they were like grasshoppers compared to them.
Something was wrong. Either genetics or a second incusion by the sons of God.
The text does not mention this but it makes you wonder, what happened.
Ted R, I am just going to look at the video tonight now after midnight so I want to get in one last thought before I see what the youtube narrator says.
One that this is Noah announcing this curse not God. And if announced on Ham it might would mean all nations coming out of him which was a mixture like the other sons.
But Noah was specific probably dealing with the exact person that did the deed whatever it was and Ham his father got win of it but didn’t act properly to protect his father’s reputation.
Now I am through and will check out the video. This has spurred a lot of discussions off-site.
Thanks as always for your thought provoking postings as it starts us to thinking.
Td R, good morning.I finally looked at the video you posted and how insightful!
In 2018 a young relative of mine got me out of bed one morning to run this article pass me.
It is dated November 2018 and it so opened my thought pattern that I wrote an article and posted it here in 2018. The comparisons are along the same lines.
http://askjacqueline.life/ham-noah-and-uncovering-his-nakedness/
In our Saturday meeting we were discussing The AntiChrist. Here is the Scriptural evidence I spoke of. There is a series on this channel regarding the issue:
https://youtu.be/kjqWb9Gxh18
Expectations of AntiChrist by Chuck Missler
Koinonia House YouTube Channel
Another great video from our Brother Winston on Watchtower Examinations!
Why Jehovah’s Witnesses Cannot See that Jesus Is God!
https://youtu.be/XUFSRuunZqY
Jesus is the SON of GOD! Not an Angel! Not a mere Man, as some preach! If I have a son my son is HUMAN, not a different creature. Here is a great rebuttal to a recent Watchtower video!
TedR I have been saying for years that GOD is descriptive of power but also the destination name of a Species so to speak.
ie, human is a species and everyone born of a man and a woman is human, fish and animals, everything born of these are fish and animal then you break it down a bit.
So, GOD is a Species and all borne of the first GOD as a Species is god! we don’t say a human but we say humans, we don’t say a fish but fish.
So Jevah is GOD (caps for being the first and eminence)and Jesus is God and there are other gods says the bible but we don’t put the word a in front of that.
Jesus is God borne of his Father Jehovah is HIS name this benevolent GOD and Jesus is the name of God who is Jehovah’s son.
I will go look at this video and see if he sees it that way.
I do not however believe in a Godhead, I do believe that the Holy Spirit is a he, some sort of Spirit as Jehovah has a lot of creation in heaven. Ezekial Daniel and Revelation to name a few tells us about them.
The Holy Spirit is unique as it seems to come directly from Jehovah and can be everywhere and indwell within persons or attach himself to an individual.
In the Old Testament as with Samson and David and others it came upon them then left and came back etc.
But in the New Testament, it stays with you Jesus says and it has feelings and can be grieved. It is here with us always until Jesus and Jehovah come to us in Revelation 21 and 22.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si43j1r4vr8 This is very interesting on an explanation of some endtimes events.
Who were the Giants (Nephilim) mentioned after the flood?
Why did God have to destroy all mankind with the flood?
Why were certain tribes commanded to be completely wiped out by Israel to the point of complete genocide?
The You Tube channel Begginning and End and the website beginningandend.com contains a series of videos and articles regarding the Nephilim and the answers to these questions! Very detailed and Scripture oriented. Here is a link to the first of that series:
https://youtu.be/zbNainvoCmI
https://beginningandend.com/bloodlines-of-the-nephilim-a-biblical-study/
Thanks TedR, people just dont know those were not Adam’s offspring after the flood that they were commanded to commit genocide on.
They had six fingers and 6 toes on each hand and foot. They and there babies were not fully human. They also were cannibals of their inhabitants.
David took 5 stones because Goliath had 4 nephillim brothers.
David and his band of men were giant slayers.
My web host says the persons that wrote the codes to eat up our site was on a high level of sabotage. They say they never saw a code this complex and are working to trace it back so mine had been allowed to run.
They said Miss you have an enemy. This code is precise and deliberate.
But they forget about God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Those who are in us and with us are more powerful than them.
No one fears them anymore we fear only God and Jesus. We are not the reason for their problems. They molest children and break up families. We simply help them survive it by listening and helping.
All of us are being one step ahead of them and reporting who we think are the ones writing these complex takedown codes.
They even take down selective articles. They took Barbara Anderson custom link and many more down. Some articles they erased the words. But that’s alright. God probably know we need to refresh our pages. Lol
Brother Chuck Missler provides very interesting and educational insights in the Book of Daniel. A must watch!
https://youtu.be/o8AXk-zW-nQ
TedR,that is how I learned about the 70th week of Daniel! Isn’t it something that we were never told about there being an interval of 2 thousand years now.
We were taught that Messiah was cut off in the middle of the week and that the end of the week was in 36CE.
Even a common layman can see that Daniel is talking about and end-time prophecy!
Just like the Jews have never got all the land Jehovah promised to them because thousands of years are passing. That is the way Jehovah does things, HIS time table doesn’t happen right away. There are intervals of years, decades, and centuries.
The 70th week of Daniel might just be about to unfold with the treaties of Israel in the last couple of weeks.
I know the Israel government is not aware that their hope and survival should be in acknowledging Christ not depending on the protection of peace from the governments. They are going to turn on her but at least it is moving our time table closer to the day of the LORD.
Amiss the chaos of Covid-19 this treaty is happening with a young Jewish boy of 39 years old.
I wondered how was it that Jared, a Jew was married to Pres. Trump’s daughter.
Now I see it!
“I shall bless those that bless Israel and curse those that don’t”. This election will be a “WHAT????” Just my speculation because of support for the wife of the Grand omnificent ONE JEHOVAH. I am on the edge of my seat.
Thanks for posting this and for those countries that can’t access youtube, Chuck Missler is below in the videos at the bottom of this page.
Do we bow down to Men? The following video presented by our brother and former elder Mark Martin, answers that question. Members of the Watchtower organization as well as other are actually committing spiritual idolatry! Idolatry in any form is condemned in Gods Word! Unfortunately this started with Pastor Russell in the case of the Bible Students and has morphed into worship of the Governing Body of JW’s. Most cults today and even some main stream religions are guilty of putting mans views and traditions over the clear truth of the Bible. Take 10 minutes and watch this, especially if you are still a Watchtower member. Food for thought if we truly want to serve our only Lord, Jesus Christ!
https://youtu.be/1H0UBhpEwmk
I was listening to the radio this morning and the Pastor made a very good point. He told of a man who approached him. The man was having marriage issues and was a sinner. The man asked the Pastor, can someone like me come to your Church. The Pastor replied; “of course”. The man stated; “Good, I need religion”. The Pastor answered; “if it’s “religion you are looking for then you can’t find it in my Church”. This confused the man. “What do you mean? If I go to a bar I get beer, If I come to Church I get religion, That’s what you sell, isn’t it?”
The Pastor then made this comment: ” Religion is a man made organization, with man made rules and legalistic laws.” ” To get close to God and attain Salvation you need to have a PERSONAL relaationship with Christ!, the Bible doesn’t preach religion”
The only mention of religion found in the New Testament is found in the book of James, the half brother of our Lord:
James 1:27
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
Jesus said at John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
NO ONE! Not any organization or religious affiliation you belong to can grant eternal life! Only a personal relationship with our Lord Jesus! Only faith and trust in HIM! No amount of works can earn us a spot in the Kingdom! The only commands we follow are those put forth by Jesus, our King, found in God’s Word! It is our faith and love for him that will motivate us to fine works. Not mandates and rules of an organization.
According to the Watchtower, we should not worship Jesus or assign him too much honor. He is limited and has not been given certain “privileges”! This is understandable since they have reduced him to the rank of a created Archangel named Michael! One of their favorite verses as they preach is Matthew 28:19,20. Lets examine that Scripture in context:
Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Notice first verse 17
17 When they saw him, they worshiped him
Yes, in plain Scripture it says the “worshiped him”. Notice Strongs Concordance regarding the word worship:
proskuneó: to do reverence to
Original Word: προσκυνέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: proskuneó
Phonetic Spelling: (pros-koo-neh’-o)
Definition: to do reverence to
Usage: I go down on my knees to, do obeisance to, worship.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from pros and kuneó (to kiss)
Definition
to do reverence to
NASB Translation
bow down (1), bow down before (1), bowed down (1), bowed down before (2), bowing before (1), bowing down (1), prostrated himself before (1), worship (32), worshiped (17), worshipers (1), worshiping (1), worships (1)
So obviously Jesus was worshiped.
What about his authority? Notice verse 18
“ALL (emphasis mine) authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
I see no restriction here! The Scripture is plain! Jesus has been given ALL authority by his Father. It does not say all authority except…!
He then tells his disciples to go and make disciples vs 20 “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” Obey all I have commanded! HIM, all HE commanded! He does not say all my Father has commanded here!
Obviously from this Scripture alone we can see that the Watchtower doctrine is wrong. We don’t have to lie or twist Scripture, the Scriptures are PLAIN!
The Watchtower also claims that Christ returned invisibly in 1914! What does Jesus say: vs 20: ” I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
If Jesus has always been with us invisibly, why would he need to return invisibly?
When Jesus returns notice what Revelation 1:7 says
Revelation 1:7
New International Version
7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
There will no doubt that he has returned! Even the Jewish people who were instrumental in putting him to a horrible death will see him.
Ezekiel 39:7 “‘I will make known my holy name among my people Israel. I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, and the nations will know that I the Lord am the Holy One in Israel. 8 It is coming! It will surely take place, declares the Sovereign Lord. This is the day I have spoken of.
Yes, when Jesus returns EVERYONE will KNOW it, not just a handful of people!
With this one Scripture we can put the Watchtowers false doctrine concerning Christ to rest! We can and should worship Jesus along with the Father. Jesus is not just a created angel. If he was he could not be worshiped:
Colossians 2:18
New International Version
18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind.
Jesus is more than just a created Angel, he is the :only begotten son of God! Thus we deserves our full obedience, just as we give worship and obedience to the Father! That is why we are baptized in the name of the Father, the SON, and the Holy Spirit!
I came across this and found it interesting. Getting back to following the “Book”!
https://youtu.be/fA3jU_t-bDc
TedR, you have out-did yourself now!
Sometimes a person might not click on the link.
Would you have time to give the audience a summary of what it says.
This is heartwarming and encouraging for those Christians that have gotten out of Babylon to worship God the way Jesus told us.
This man explains it well.
We recognized this, and now it seems God is dealing with these big buildings conventions and huge congregations. COVID-19!
None of them can meet in kingdom halls or Church buildings.
He is doing what we are trying to do, help brothers start thinking for themselves and get back to God and the Bible not organizations and big money stealing conventions, having to stay in hotels and spend enormous amounts of money to sit for hours in uncomfortable clothing and look a bunch of men in the face and hear them preach:
WE ARE THE WAY, YOU MUST BE IN THE ORGANIZATION TO GET SAVED!
What a horrible lie to steal the Beautiful lifesaving sacrifice of Jesus from unthinking people.
I was introduced to this by our brother Steven. We actually got together Saturday afternoon, about 5 of us and sat for around 2 1/2 hours discussing the Bible. Steven is taking this course. Go to this website: https://omegakingdomministry.org
I am going to try to start this myself.
Here is an introduction to the program, it’s free!
https://youtu.be/Oq-Hy024EsY
This is actually toward your neck of the woods I think. The idea is to go back to having home churches or what they call Ekklesias. No clergy or hard core doctrine, simply the Bible!
We had a great time Saturday. Sorry I haven’t been able to get on with you for a few weeks. With these long days I have been busy. I have been trying to get on Six Screens as well. Lots of things going on with the Borg! I received a letter last week telling me about the “future promises” and inviting me to visit JW.Org. The person who sent this is an elder and knows full well who I am . Since I am inactive they can count service time when they write me a letter. I had to laugh! If you want I will email you a copy.
TedR, I got a call from a childhood friend offering to show me how to use zoom and get on jwdotorg. I gently told her I have been on zoom since it was created and BBB and Adobe connect for over decade. She asked if o knew about their meetings on zoom I said yes we have our small group meetings on zoom. I reminded her I was a witness and BS for a total of 70years, that I know the drill and perhaps she should branch out to those that don’t know about their organization and its founders. We went on to talk about childhood as girlfriends to soften the call.
I noticed the link was originating by my neck of the woods.
Did you notice the new website? Click on BereanBible in the black section and it takes you to Dave.
This allows ones wanting to just attend the study to comment a Bible only website.
Askjacqueline is still a help and resting place for the Spiritually abused.
Dave will post his notes on here also under the Berean fellowship link further down in the black section.
I have come across small groups meeting in our local national park. They even baptize in Lake Michigan. They were young people.
Back to the Bible and the way it was before Constantine heathenized it by forcing meeting in buildings.
They used to hint down small groups during that time. Now most are money makers and social clubs.
A strong message of love for all of Jehovah’s Witnesses by Winston Gilling. I couldn’t say it better myself
https://youtu.be/o2zvGQAnVZ8
TedR, this man is so articulate and accurate. He does not have a dog in the fight but is always on the money.
Not recognizing the fullness of what Jesus’ role is according to scriptures causes members to not really get into the Bible.
Jesus explained that he would send back a Helper, the Holy Spirit to be with us always. We only need it, not a governing body to help understand the divine plan and what we need to do in witnessing about him.
Small Groups are doing fine using The Helper.
Often called the Comforter means He jumps in the battle with you to fight.
Books, magazines and governing bodies contain their doctrines and a whole lot of foolish rules to subject the members under them instead of Christ.
Hopefully with “EVERYBODY” joining the Small Groups on the internet, more with search the Bible and ask Jrhovah for the indwell6of the Holy Spirit. He gives it freely if you ask for it.
The Watchtower, claims that unless you preach to others you can become blood guilty and will not enter the Kingdom! To gain salvation you must have works! Is this true?
Will preaching alone insure our salvation? What about helping others less fortunate?
As followers of Christ, we are to let our light shine! How? Notice the following words of Jesus and James:
Matthew 5:14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
Jesus has just given his famous sermon on the Mount and is now speaking with his disciples.
As Jesus disciples today, do we let our light shine? Is our faith manifest to all? Jesus says in verse 16 “that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.” Do our actions glorify God? If we truly believe in our Lord and Savior and have faith in him then that faith will be manifest by more than words, more than going to church on Sunday! Notice what James, the brother of Jesus has to say:
James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.
What deeds does James highlight here? Preaching? What about the Gospel of Jesus about the poor?
This video provides interesting information regarding this:
https://youtu.be/3Mu3MhVJc5E
We gain salvation through Faith! Works alone will not buy us a spot in Gods Kingdom! Our Faith however will motivate us to follow Christ’s example. We show our faith by our love, mercy, and kindness toward others, not just by words but by our actions! Thus, we bring honor to God and our Lord Jesus and truly are the “light of the world!”
Ted,
I always felt that was a bit late and it didn’t sound quite right. My thoughts, and this is entirely my own thought with no scripture to back It but I thought it would make sense that while Jesus was on earth then Satan might of thought he had a chance and that this is when he went to battle with Michael and lost and got cast out. He knew that when Jesus returned in power he had no chance at all so may as well try cause now after being cast outHe is stuck relying on alimited plain of existence. No more chance but to try and lead men against heaven now.
I a going to look these scriptures up and reference them later today. I always felt the battle could have started while Jesus was on earth also, Lee, but being erroneously taught that Jesus was an angel and was Michael the arc angel, stopped this thought. These are some scriptures that seem to support each other.
Luke 10:18
John 12:31
Rev 9:1
Rev 12:8,9
There was a lot of demons down here when Jesus came also. Not so much mention before he came but Apostles had to deal with them also.
I think his fall is different than this eviction from heaven by the battle with Michael and his Angels so I am referencing the battle.
This is an interesting youtube on the gap theory and the actual fall of satan. Interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjtrTGYqimo
When was Satan Cast from heaven? What does history show?
Our dear Brother Mark Martin does an excellent Job refuting the key JW doctrine that Satan was cast from heaven in 1914
Worth a watch:
https://youtu.be/xQdZvzsnVSE
This is interesting. The Watchtower has taught that this occurred in October 1914 yet according to latest information this occurred “about 1914”. Are they getting ready for another doctrinal change? Has “truth” changed again?
TedR, the whole 1914 prediction was a disgrace and a lie and the adherents of Russell spin that doctrine of date setting still.
They said first armageddon was coming that year, then said well no, the gentile times ended and Christ threw satan out of heaven.
They can’t get it right because they regard Jesus as just an angel named Michael.
Their whole premise is wrong, they ar,e living in a house of cards with their doctrinal religion instead of just the sayings of the Bible.
That year was made up after Miller failed. Russell focused on his numbers and played the date setting game along with other men doing that time and before, like Camping who did it three times.
It is hard to believe they are still playing the date setting game in an effort to prove Jesus wrong when he said no man knows but the Father.
1Mark is helping those who are still struggling with the ramblings of one man from the 19th century and his diehard followers. He is doing a great service to break it down.
Wouldn’t it be nice if they focused on the Bible?
Maybe after he disproves the doctrines they will be able to move on.
Thanks for the post.
TedR, you have done some people a lot of good by posting this information from the so-called “Shephard book”.
It is written to empower the elders to think they have some judicial authority but in actuality, they are just words on a piece of paper that a small group of men sit around and think they can judge individuals.
Now the young generation is not intimidated by this as most of their friends don’t follow shunning and used the meetings for social meetings.
Now since COVID they are able to get on sites like this one and see there is support from older ones, that they too see the abuse of this American organization.
Some want to thank you for your research.
I notice that after leaving they are going straight to the Bible now having confidence that they can worship God without being under men in an organization.
A lot of them are getting the skills to make a decent living and as such are more educated than their leaders who are appointed because of their devotion to the organization, not intelligence or loyalty to God.
Young persons were not aware there was an actual book saying how the elders were to act. They thought they call Bethel or went by letters. To tell them no they have a book like any corporation.
Religion have a book also but it is the Bible.
I remember the article where they said ” even if they could be proven wrong by scripture we had to accept and teach what they say until they changed it”.
That was my final straw, I commented on that with a question and was told that is what the slave says, sister. Mentally I left that day.
So thanks for this from a number of young people.
Jacqueline Another point! If a person leaves and just stops going to meetings would not result in disfellowshipping but if that person wants to join another Church he WILL BE disfellowshipped for APOSTACY! So you can leave but don\’t keep serving God!
Shepherd Book Chapter 12
39. Apostasy: Apostasy is a standing away from true worship, a falling away, defection, rebellion, abandonment. It includes the following:
(1) Celebrating False Religious Holidays: (Ex. 32:4-6; Jer.
7:16-19) Not all holidays directly involve false religion
and require judicial action.
(2) Participation in Interfaith Activities: (2 Cor. 6:14,
15, 17, 18) Apostate acts include bowing before altars
and images and sharing in false religious songs and
prayers.—Rev. 18:2, 4.
(3) Deliberately Spreading Teachings Contrary to Bible
Truth: (2 John 7, 9, 10; lvs p. 245; it-1 pp. 126-127) Any
with sincere doubts regarding the Bible truth taught by
Jehovah’s Witnesses should be helped. Loving
assistance should be provided. (2 Tim. 2:16-19, 23-26;
Jude 22, 23) If one obstinately is speaking about or
deliberately spreading false teachings, this may be or
may lead to apostasy. If there is no response after a
first and a second admonition, a judicial committee
should be formed.—Titus 3:10, 11; w86 4/1 pp. 30-31.
(4) Causing Divisions, Promoting Sects: (Rom. 16:17, 18;
Titus 3:10, 11) This would be deliberate action
disrupting the unity of the congregation or undermining
the confidence of the brothers in Jehovah’s
arrangement. It may involve or lead to apostasy.—it-2
p. 886.
(5) Employment Promoting False Religion: Continuing in
employment that makes one an accomplice to or a
promoter of false worship would subject one to
disfellowshipping after being allowed six months to
DETERMINING WHETHER A JUDICIAL COMMITTEE SHOULD BE FORMED
CHAPTER 12 “SHEPHERD THE FLOCK OF GOD”
make the needed adjustments.—w99 4/15 pp. 28-30;
lvs pp. 204-206.
TedR wow, who do these men think they are? Do they think they own people, with their little Sherpherd book like the book of Mormons.
The Bible is the absolute only library of Books that humans have to go by!
I notice they mentioned a ” judicial committee “. The judge in my case with them said you can’t stop your elder because you dont have any power. She said I have the power to put this man in jail. So these so called judicial meetings have no legal standing with man nor God.
My father took blood and was disfellowshipped. His committee came to him on his death bed to reinstate him but he refused to submit to the powers in New York headquarters, saying he was a free man and not subject to a man made organization. They begged him because of their conscience but he said he would rather die faithful to God than worship this so called faithful slave, who was Russell still at that time.
My mom was disfellowshipped for not committing adultery with one of the men on my father’s committee. She revealed him and never consented to be reinstated but insisted they read they were in error. They never would after many letters to the watchtower. Finally they just started calling on her to answer watchtower questions after 4 years. She had contacted a lawyer for defamation.
So their little rules have never mattered to free thinking humans. It was an honor to disfellowship them for taking the place of Christ and substituting their books for the Bible.
If persons are willing to break up their families to please these men, it is truly sad. The fear of these rich billionaires in Warwick is sad indeed.
Something I noticed is that the Society speaks out of both sides of their mouth. What they say, often to avoid litigation, and what they do are two different things. Take time to watch the disfellowshipping videos on the JW website.
Here is information directly from the most recent Shepherd the flock of God book Chapter 12 page 17:
17. Though this is not an exhaustive list, brazen conduct may be involved in the following if the wrongdoer has an insolent, contemptuous attitude made evident by a practice of these things:
(1) Unnecessary Association With Disfellowshipped
or Disassociated Individuals: Willful, continued,
unnecessary association with disfellowshipped or
disassociated nonrelatives despite repeated counsel
would warrant judicial action.—Matt. 18:17b; 1 Cor. 5:11,
13; 2 John 10, 11; lvs pp. 39-40.
So according to the direction given to elders JUDICIAL ACTION WILL BE TAKEN IF A PERSON IS ASSOCIATING WITH DISFELLOWSHIPPED NON-RELATIVES!
If a publisher in the congregation is known to
have unnecessary association with disfellowshipped or
disassociated relatives who are not in the household,
elders should use the Scriptures to counsel and reason
with him. Review with him information from the Remain
in God’s Love book, page 241. If it is clear that a
Christian is violating the spirit of the disfellowshipping decree in this regard and does not respond to counsel,
he would not qualify for congregation privileges, which
require one to be exemplary. He would not be dealt
with judicially unless there is persistent spiritual
association or he persists in openly criticizing the
disfellowshipping decision.
I know of one brother in my congregation whose daughter was released from prison and had to move into his house. He was denied privileges ( a term that irritates me personally) and pressured to make her leave. Look at what happened to Ray Franz who was disfellowshipped for sharing a meal with his landlord and employer! While a person may not be disfellowshipped for associating with a family member there is extreme pressure by the Society, the elders, and even the rank and file. They are viewed as not “following the direction of the “faithful slave” and soft shunned within the congregation. I am often criticized by my daughter because I openly associate with my son.
So while they say that associating with family will not lead to disfellowshipping, obviously to avoid legal action in my opinion, the inference on their videos, talks in assemblies and on the platform strongly promote the shunning of family members. I know of at least 4 young people kicked out of their homes and on to the street when they were disfellowshipped just in my area alone!
I can email you a PDF of the Shepherd Book if you would like. I would love to see copies of those letters so I can show my wife.
TedR, thanks so much for the references. It helps the ones that need to articulate to counsel what the man made rules are.
I was sent the book but I never read any thing written by them or go on their website because I have come to view them as really of no matter when it relates to the worship of Jehovah or Jesus.
They are truly to me an organization evolved from the Teachings of the Brethren, Scofield, Millerites and Russellites.
They are doctrine driven not necessarily Bible driven.
Shunning gives you the opportunity to rely strictly on Jesus. It opened up the way to go straight to God and talk things over with HIM.
I have learned to immerse myself in the Bible and I have forgotten about those that shun me and can’t remember most of the congregation members name. I left the local unit over 20 years ago when I won the restraining order against the organization. I recently had to invoke it when an elder came to my house. A male relationship called him and suggested he obey the order which does not expire and stop harassing me and seeking revenge because they lost some 20 years ago. They can’t seem to just go away, so I keep it public and not secret as silence is an abusive organization’s best friend.
Why they see a need for Pharisee like additional books instead of just the Bible’s council I will never understand.
We all go through trials in our lifetime. With this pandemic increasing our stress along with the many other issues we face we can often feel discouraged. I came across this wonderful, encouraging song to help us cope with our many issues we all face! I hope you are encouraged and inspired as much as I am!
https://youtu.be/Ppz4BBo2JHI